Armstrong County Unofficial Election Results
- County maintenance personnel unload voting supplies at the maintenance facility while election returns were turned in by election officials from each municipality. According to Deputy Sheriff Terry Bish, the first return came in at 8:26PM from Kittanning Borough – 2nd Ward, followed up shortly by Kittanning Borough – 4th Ward.
by Jonathan Weaver
The next U.S. Senator could be from Armstrong County based on last night’s election results.
In the national Senatorial race, Republican Tom Smith of Shelocta garnered more than 81 percent of the vote in Armstrong County, almost the same percentage in Indiana County and nearly 40 percent of the vote statewide to become the Republican candidate on the General Election ballot this November. He defeated three challengers from the eastern portion of Pennsylvania: David Christian of Bucks County, Marc Scaringi of Cumberland County and Steven Welch of Chester County.
Smith will challenge Democratic incumbent Bob Casey, Jr. - who had a challenge of his own against Joseph Vodvarka of Allegheny County Tuesday. However, Casey received nearly 75 percent of the left-wing party’s votes locally and 80 percent statewide to represent the Democratic vote this November.
County voters also chose Mitt Romney to contest incumbent Barack Obama in this November’s Presidential race. Romney also reportedly won the popular Republican vote in the states of Delaware, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New York to boost his candidacy nationwide.
Voting materials had to be packed up from the County’s 68 voting districts at the close of last night’s Primary Election by county workers in the County’s maintenance garage.
Obama was uncontested on the Democratic ballot.
Locally, of the nearly 5,000 votes cast for State Senator, nearly all were for unopposed incumbent Don White. However, there were a reported-29 write-in votes against him.
Sixty-five write-in votes were also cast against Representative Jeff Pyle in the 60th Legislative District, but Pyle was unopposed on the Republican ballot and will be on the November General Election ballot. Democrat Jo Ellen Bowman of Kiski Township will oppose him then after winning the Democratic nod.
Rep. Eli Evankovich (R-54), Rep. Donna Oberlander (R-63) and Mike Kelly of Butler, representing the 3rd Congressional District also ran unopposed in their respective party, though Kelly will be opposed in November by Missa Eaton of Sharon who won the Democratic Congressional nomination.
The General Election is scheduled for November 6.
Local News | jweaver April 25, 2012
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By JornJensen, April 25, 2012 @ 9:05 AM
According to the PA Department of State website, in Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum took 18.4% of the vote to Mitt Romney’s 58%, and Santorum isn’t even in the race anymore. What does that tell you about the dissatisfation in the republican ranks about their choice for a presidential candidate? Maybe Mitt should look at Rick for a VP candidate? Regardless, we’ll have to vote for Mitt this fall as people who work for a living are outnumbered by people who vote for a living.
Tom Smith took 39.5% of the senator vote to the next closest, Sam Rohrer, at 22.3%.
By newvoice, April 25, 2012 @ 10:16 AM
Congrad’s Tom Smith even without the backing of Jeff Pyle & Sen. White (welsh supporters) YOU WON.
The people see now that White & Pyle only care for White & Pyle…Show them what someone that really cares about the people can DO.
By goober, April 25, 2012 @ 4:21 PM
25 percent turnout. what can you say except people deserve what they get when they wont even make an effort.
By mark, April 25, 2012 @ 9:34 PM
I realize that this vote doesn`t bring out the voters that November will, but with all that is going on in this country today politically and all the whining I hear and read about politicians, we deserve as voters to get just what we get. 25 lousy percent of voters got off their lazy behinds and voted. Pathetic… what a sad and disgusting number. 1 in 4. I gotta stop now before I get banned by admin. Thank you to the ones that voted. No excuses for the rest of you.
By JornJensen, April 26, 2012 @ 6:39 AM
goober and mark - Remember, independents don’t get to choose republican or democratic candidates, so they didn’t need to show up. Democrats didn’t really need to show up either as Obama ran unopposed and got 100% of the primary democrat vote. Now, had the democrats put Hillary up against Obama and a cardboard anybody up against buffoon Joe Biden, that might have brought voters out.
In November, we definitely need 100% (yes, I realize that is unrealistic, but it is a good goal) out to vote - that election will be the most critical in US history.
By ASDpayer, April 26, 2012 @ 12:18 PM
I voted, as I always do. But frankly, on the Democratic side there was only one contested race. I think for many the lack of contests made the election less urgent. On the Republican side, I think it was a similar situation.
By jerry6, April 26, 2012 @ 5:38 PM
Just wondering. Did Kelly who owns a car dealership in Butler and wherever, vote against Obama helping out the car industry. He is a replublican and I bet he did vote against this. He should be thanking Obama now for saving the car industry. I know all of the conservatives will jump on this and not give this administration any credit where this is concerned.
By mark, April 26, 2012 @ 5:39 PM
Can`t quote 2010 figure but in 2008 there were 45k registered voters in Armstrong. I realize what you`re saying Yorn about this republican primary and you are correct!
I guess I am starting early to try to get a message to people that aren`t registered TO do so and ones that are registered to take advantage of our right to vote.
We are approaching THE most important election in OUR lifetimes and we need to pull our heads out of the mud and use our right to vote.
Who to vote for is each individuals decision. Take the time and do the research as if you were buying a new car before you vote tho. I repeat, THE most important election in our lives.
Please register,research and vote. Thank you.
My name is Mark and I approve this message.
By jerry6, April 26, 2012 @ 9:59 PM
Jorn: How can you call Biden a buffone after the last VP Bush had. Bush and Cheny were the worst president and VP we ever had. When Bush took over from Clinton, he had a balanced budget. When Obama took over 3 1/2 years ago from Bush, this country was so far in debt it is a wonder we have come as far as we are now. Everything Obama has tried to accomplish, the replubicans have voted down. Don’t look for Romney to get into office when he has the women against him. When you get a bunch of women together who Romney has tried to take back to the 50′s, he doens’t stand a chance.
By The Phantom, April 26, 2012 @ 10:51 PM
Nice job on the talking points their Jerry
By mark, April 26, 2012 @ 11:11 PM
jerry, please do more research before you vote. Thank you.
By jerry6, April 27, 2012 @ 8:48 AM
Mark: Who are you to tell me to do more research before I vote. I am very informed about what is going on.
Just because I don’t believe as you do doesn’t make me wrong and you right.
By JornJensen, April 27, 2012 @ 10:15 AM
jerry6 - Glad that you ‘called me out’ on my comment. First, I hold John Buffone in much higher regard than I do buffoon Joe Biden. I do not think Admin will allow me to post Joe’s major gaffe during the sliding-in of Obamacare on all of us. You do know the one that I am referring to, correct? That wasn’t his first gaffe, nor was it his last - there have been and continue to be many. An embarrassment to all of us around the world.
Bush left us with the debt that you mentioned and then, in 3.5 short years, Obama doubled that debt (somewhere 15/16 trillion). That sure worked out well for all of us.
Regarding Mike Kelly, I think I can answer some of your questions - not sure how he voted on auto companies bailouts, but he does own a Korean car product dealership over on route 8 below Butler, plus some GM dealerships, so he is suspect of voting ‘for’ auto companies bailouts.
Handing the car companies to the unions was not the correct solution to that problem. What I do know is that he voted ‘for’ raising the debt ceiling, thereby further enabling Obama to spend, spend, spend. But, judging him against ultra-liberal Kathy Dahlkemper, we’re all very lucky that her tenure was cut so short - of course, we’ll be paying her a lifetime of benefits for a short tenure, so the joke is on us, the taxpayers.
jerry6 - Use your vote very wisely this fall.
By taxpoor, April 27, 2012 @ 2:16 PM
jerry6 Are you being serious? Or are you just trying for a response.Ok I’ll respond.Obama has takeing the debt to the trillions part of that being bailing out the auto industry who in return paid their GM a million dollar bonus with our tax dollars.Created stimulis jobs {unions}with no money to pay for it.Our next president will have to answer for that just like Bush had to for Clinton.Has given complete power to the EPA for the destruction of all who have jobs in the fossil fuel industry and all the jobs supported by those. How about the health care game.Sorry Jerry but obama will go down as the worst president this countrys ever seen.But theres good news for Obama he has plenty of liberals to put him back in for four more years the ones who beleive what the democrats tell them is fact. The ones who want more free Obama money. those who dont work because they plain dont want to.Those who want the government to controll everything in their lives, Yea Jerry They’ll tell you he’s great and i’ll bet you and many others will beleive.Four more years of Obama we will all be out of work. We will be paying 12 dollars a gallon for gas be told when we can use electricity cause the citys will get theirs first.Then he can change the constitution so he can be president for life then we can all work at government jobs and farms and factorys under their rule. Jerry6 please wake up and do some research before you vote.
By lucky1, April 28, 2012 @ 4:04 PM
Mike Kelly took $2.9 million in Cash for Clunkers money for his auto dealership, then campaigned on how he was against the stimulus (about 1/3 of which were tax cuts). Kelly is a typical teabagger, in the sense that when government benefits them, they are all for it. When the government benefits others, they are against it. Every wonder why most of the people at teabagger rallies are on Medicare and Social Security, yet are yelling for cuts in government spending or chanting, “Keep the government out of my Medicare!”? Ever wonder why a right winger ever makes the point that areas and states that lean Republican tend to pay less in taxes and get more in benefits, yet areas and states that lean Democratic pay more in taxes and receive less in benefits? Well, I have to get back to work now to support all of the teabaggers on Medicare and Social Security who are angry that they have received a higher COLA or the added benefits they now receive from Obamacare. My back hurts from carrying all of those 65 and older Republicans who are sitting around doing nothing except believing any conspiracy theory about Obama.
By JornJensen, April 28, 2012 @ 4:28 PM
jerry6 - I’m interested in your comments regarding Tom Smith’s tremendous success in this recent election.
He swept the State at 40% of the vote to get the nod for the senate run. He took 80% of the Armstrong County republican vote. Rarely does anyone in politics take 80% of votes - to me, that means that some of the folks on this site that bad-mouth Tom Smith must be in a very small minority. It also tells me that many, many people hold Tom in high regard and want him to represent them in Washington, DC.
Your thoughts?
By mark, April 28, 2012 @ 5:07 PM
Jerry, didn`t say who was right or wrong. I said please do more research before you vote. BUT, do it with a open mind. Takes hours of research to find the truth on just one issue. Some sources are bias.I like to get many takes on one issue, then decide. This will be the biggest election in our lives and we CAN`T screw it up.
Jorn is right about the debt. This administration is NOT making it better.Bailouts on our money? Let the business fail, not the country.
My parents told me about living thru a depression and it looks like I`m gonna see one first hand.
By jerry6, April 28, 2012 @ 5:59 PM
tax poor and Jorn: I don’t have to ask what cable channel you listen to. Hannity and O”Reily sure do pull the wool over you people’s eyes.
By dalereese67, April 28, 2012 @ 9:38 PM
Taxpoor,
Are you being serious, or can we say paranoid schizophrenia much?
How can anyone say Obama was worse than Bush? His answer to the economy tanking was a $1,000 loan to all of us taxpayers. Gas was under $2 a gallon when Obama took office, but the July before that it was higher than it is now ( a record).
By dalereese67, April 28, 2012 @ 9:45 PM
People seem to forget these things.
No matter who’s president, they don’t control gas prices, they don’t control foreign economies, and they don’t have a magic wand that automatically makes every idea of theirs law.
We were headed towards our current situation no matter who was voted in.
By csmp, April 29, 2012 @ 8:32 PM
Delereese67 you are correct. They could veto bills but that also doesnt mean it can’t still become law. When people wake up and realize that both parties are the same than that is when we will have true change. Both parties spend too much of our hard earned money as if we can afford it. Both parties have expanded the government a great deal over the past 50 years. both parties love to go to war or should i say police the world. The talking points might sound different but the final result is the same. GO REPUBLICRATS. The comment about the tea party goes even deeper than that. It started out from the grass roots but was taken over by Neo-conservatives. Our country can’t afford another Bush or Obama. liberty is dying fast and quick. ( or should I have said Fast and Furiously) I am not for anarchy by the way either.
By JornJensen, April 29, 2012 @ 9:12 PM
Well jerry6, appears that you’re in good company with lucky1 - the two of you can run around and tear down ten commandments monuments - you can be the lucky2.
You predicted that the conservatives ‘will jump on this’ regarding Mike Kelly. I answered you with facts and it appears that lucky1 answered with maybe facts and attacks - but I haven’t read any great defenders of Mike Kelly. Have you?
lucky1 states teabaggers, which, of course is an attack on people belonging to an organization called the TEA Party, or the Taxed Enough Already Party. Tom Smith, the highly successful senatorial candidate is a known TEA Party individual and appears to have a strong following across Pennsylavania. Insult all you want, if he wins this fall, there will be some tea thrown in the harbor. Yes!
lucky1 - someday you will be old like the people you pick on in your post - some older person raised you.
dalereese67 - Obama will go down as the worst president in US history. It was Jimmy Carter, but he’s now been one-upped by Obama. Obama has made a mockery of the presidency - he’s golfed 94 outings in 3.5 years as president - even Tiger Woods can’t match that. All the while, things are crumbling all around him - “gotta get that 2nd 9 in!”
dalereese67 - your last statement sure gives up easily - “We were headed towards our current situation no matter who was voted in.” Can we say LEADERSHIP, and lack thereof?
Funny how none of the liberals can use their real name on this site. Let’s hear from one that will.
By mark, April 29, 2012 @ 10:17 PM
Jerry and Dalereese, tell me who or what to believe in. You seem to be in the know so please tell me. I live in the same country , the same county as you and I see NO improvement. You feel sending our money to bailouts is good. Disagree. You feel this administration is better. How? I would like either of you to give me some facts so I can honestly feel this president isn`t gonna send us into the outhouse. I don`t want to hear republican/democrat stuff, I would like to hear facts that have made you post as you have. What has made you feel this way? Not saying you`re wrong, just want your sources so I can sleep with this guy in the WH. Thank you.
By ASDpayer, April 29, 2012 @ 11:55 PM
@ Jorn
Well you say Obama has goledf 94 times in three and half years, even Tiger Woods can’t match that. Tiger plays about 6 times a week. Obama about three times a month. He surely doesn’t have trouble getting a tee time, and the Secret Service clears the course for him. This is a very petty criticism. Our last President took a six week vacation his first year in office. So what has Obama to do? He waits for Congress to pass a budget and then waits and waits. You surely can do better in finding complaints. Any President is afforded leisure time. Some of those golf outings have been with other leaders and there is time to discuss matters without interruptions. Maybe you don’t understand golf as a place where business does get done.
By JornJensen, April 30, 2012 @ 5:46 AM
For 3.5 years, we’ve heard ‘Blame Bush, blame Bush’. So, if you folks re-elect Obama for 4 more years, will things get better or will it give Obama 4 more years of blaming Bush and promising to ‘give you stuff’? After all, things really haven’t gotten better yet - national overall average income is down by somewhere around $2,000 per year. Another 4 years and ‘moderate’ Obama will show you the real Obama - a liberal socialist. Just remember, as per Margaret Thatcher: Socialism fails when socialists run out of other peoples’ money. YOUR tax money. Europe and Russia proves her statement as fact - they’re broke.
Agree with Mark - enough of this republican/democrat rhetoric - let’s hear facts and see data rather than what one ‘believes’ or ‘was told’. Then, make an informed decision.
By taxpoor, April 30, 2012 @ 9:15 AM
Hey liberals, You dont have to watch fox or listen to talk radio look out the window.See all those young men and women wondering around Half are looking for work the other half are waiting for a welfare or SSI check and the bars to open.Ask the people losing their jobs at the power plant what Obama and His EPA have done for them or the ther six or seven power plants and their workers who are losing their jobs. How about the pipe line jobs lost and the oil we could refine . what about drilling for the oil in our country you dont think that would help? Tea party conspiracy. Democrats receive less? Thats got to be in the Liberal handbook of lieing. Ahh you forgot one. Republicans are all rich and Obama was a poor african child that had to eat dog and grasshoppers to survive.
By dalereese67, April 30, 2012 @ 11:01 AM
CSMP, you get what I was saying, thanks.
Jorn, Bush was a golfing/vacation machine in office. The economy isn’t great, but it has gotten better since Bush. I normally agree with most of your posts here, but this one I can’t. I wasn’t “giving up”. When the US has full control over the European economy and all outside influences, let me know. That’s what I was getting at. Recessions are cyclical.. we’re in one and we have to make the best of it until things turn around.
Mark, we live in the same country, but not county. I never mentioned bailouts.
I believe in the U.S. working as one istead of against one another all the time. It’s unfortunate that some people (such as yourself maybe?) don’t feel this way.
By sunflowers, April 30, 2012 @ 12:36 PM
The right energy policy would lower gas prices. Look at what happen when we drilled for nat gas.
I’m trying to figure out any positive things the government has done recent, certainly don’t think more government and more spending solves anything.
Finally what happens if Smith wins would Bagetelli (who has yet to bring jobs into this county) would he leave and go to Washington with him?
By jerry6, April 30, 2012 @ 4:45 PM
Mr. Croyle: Did I hear you say on your Tuesday night tv show a month or more ago that Snyder was taking over the plant at Reesdale to keep it from closing?
By mark, April 30, 2012 @ 5:00 PM
Dalereese, Bush had his turn and so has this other guy. Maybe some new meat will make an improvement, maybe not, but this group isn`t doing it, period. I still want to hear positives about this present group.Am I reading the wrong paper, listening to the wrong station? Tell me why anyone[who works for a living, no entitlements] should vote in this group in DC. Enlighten me. Thank you.
By JornJensen, April 30, 2012 @ 5:31 PM
dalereese67 - I hear you and I agree that you and I agree on many things, and we can agree to not agree on this topic. Our family moved from a socialist country for a better opportunity in life in the United States - I know better than to go back to anything like that (socialism). The challenge is to successfully convince others that the path we’re on right now is the wrong path.
Let’s go a different twist - how many of the liberals posting on here have served in any US military and helped defend our freedom and way of life? Just for the record, I did, US Army infantry.
What I’m referring to is CSMP’s post “both parties love to go to war or should I say police the world.” You need to understand, that, as the most powerful nation in the world, along with that comes the responsibility to ‘keep order’ because, if some country doesn’t do that, all these little 3rd world countries will mess everything up, not just themselves. Case-in-point - nukes and Iran - nukes and North Korea with a ‘kid’ in charge - someone, some country, needs to put an end to that. Our ‘apologizer-in-chief’ can’t apologize his way out of that responsibility, especially if Iran or North Korea launches a nuke at heartland USA. Then, will apologizer-in-chief apologize to the US citizens? We need a real leader. Maybe it wasn’t Bush, but it sure isn’t Obama either.
By JornJensen, April 30, 2012 @ 5:55 PM
I whine about leadership - do a fast reverse back to John Kennnedy - he was a highly-regarded leader - a democrat - a person that both parties looked up to back then. When he’d step off an airplane, he’d step out in a stately manner, grab a handrail with one hand and wave to the people with the other hand and then walk down the stairs in a stately manner. Got the respect of the people. Took the time to produce a proper salute to the soldiers at the bottom of the steps.
Now, pay attention to this clown of a president that we have now - emerges from the airplane, doesn’t grab a handrail, jogs down the steps and flashes a lightning salute as if it is below his diginity to do so and then waves as he walks. Are we supposed to be impressed with his vitality in jogging down steps? And then, what if kids in schools jog down steps without grabbing handrails - what if the teacher says, “Little Johnny, you need to grasp the handrail and walk down the steps - we don’t want you to fall and get hurt.” And little Johnny says, “President Obama doesn’t grab handrails and walk down stairs and HE’S the PRESIDENT!” So, what does the teacher say then?
It is very important for leaders to display a leadership style and appearance to gain some respect. When Obama misses a step, jogging down the airplane steps, and lands on his nose in front of that marine, which marine is going to draw the short straw and have to pick him up - that is, after they stop laughing?
We need a REAL LEADER.
By worthingtonman, April 30, 2012 @ 9:56 PM
during the 2008 campaign, Obama called G.W. Bush unpatriotic for his deficit spending and using China as a credit card. Now that Obama has shown us that he can deficit spend far greater than G.W., will he call himself unpatriotic? I doubt it.
By saber, April 30, 2012 @ 10:55 PM
Jorn - totally agree! Tired of the namecalling - obviously the people want change. Whatever Obama’s been doing for the last 4 years isn’t working.
By mark, April 30, 2012 @ 11:54 PM
This guy who someone elected as president of the greatest country on earth has managed to get us disrespected by all the other countrys. He has failed us in Iraq, Afganistan,Iran,Russia and has been responsible for sending 30k more of our boys over there without ANY agenda. Guess what, election time and he`s bringing them back. Buffalo the moron citizens. Now he`s bragging HE killed Bin Laden. “I” took him out he said. He fought Bush`s plans to form the spy and surveillence plans [that were responsible for finding Bin Laden] before president then takes credit for Bin Ladin`s death. Believe me, as God as my witness, these claims will be the nail in his coffin come November as I know the voters will see him as the undecisive confused liar he is.
Remember who PUSHED him to kill Bin Laden? Leon Pineta[sp]. He [obama] drug his feet and hid for 24 hrs before giving permission to take Bin Laden out. Thousands of our service men did the work, finding him and setting up the kill. Not him. Big deal… he said “Do it”. What a leader.
Now he brags about it and criticizes Romney for saying he[Romney] wouldn`t have done it. Personally, I think he[Bin Laden] should have been tried as Hussein. No leader of any country has the right to kill anyone. This man is out of control and the entitlement voters want him back. I work for my money and I seriously fear him. Thank you.
By ASDpayer, May 1, 2012 @ 12:14 AM
@ Jorn
Another petty criticism. And another. JFK grabbed the handrail as he had Atkinson’s Disease and suffered great back pain and was unstable ascending and descending stairs. and btw neither Obama nor Romney has served in the military. and btw, serving in the military is not a constitutional requirement. Maybe you should focus on policy and not on the personal.
By lucky1, May 1, 2012 @ 6:26 AM
I am assuming no right wingers out there care that Mike Kelly gladly accepted $2.9 million in federal bailout money and probably everyone who reads this was the recipient of a tax cut from Obama’s stimulus, which helped add to the debt. Don’t worry, it’s okay if you are a Republican and a hypocrite.
By JornJensen, May 1, 2012 @ 9:32 AM
ASDpayer - You’re right, er, I mean, I mean, left! Correct - serving in the military is not a constitutional requirement - so, enjoy your freedom and rights in the greatest country on earth as you thank those who brought and maintain that freedom and rights for you.
lucky1 - please quote your source on the ‘information’ regarding Mike Kelly and the $2.9 million. I can sense your disappointment that no one came to Mike Kelly’s defense. I won’t. I’m just very pleased that Kathy Dahlkemper is gone.
The mid-terms that got Kathy and many other liberals out of the way was a clear signal to the White House that the American people are looking for real change, not the change that a snake oil salesman was offering. I think you’ll see a strong showing of the ‘quiet people’ this fall and a much-needed change in leaders for this country.
By csmp, May 1, 2012 @ 9:53 AM
Jorn I truly support our soldiers our troops are an entity not often distinguished apart from the politics that can control them. I also believe in a limited government, as well as you do, from what I understand from your writings on these comment pages. With me saying that we could get into plenty of details on why we should also not worry to much about North Korea and Iran. Iran can not even refine gasoline what makes you think that they can make a nuclear bomb? North Korea can’t even feed themselves and they know one slip up and their countries would no longer exist we would annihilate them. Those that consider themselves to be opponents of big government need to be cautious of perpetual war and preparation for war. War feeds the growth of state. Today We are already being programed for a war with Iran. We are in Syria, Libya, Pakistan, areas of Africa looking for this Kony guy and these are just a few places we are bombing and killing. the list can go on and on. These people are all bad but we can not keep doing this as a nation we are just making more enemies. We are also killing many innocent people and many of our young generation are dying as soldiers in our military. All this is doing is jeopardizing our liberty. I am a very patriotic American I do blame some of our policies on creating some of the hate that has been directed our way but that doesn’t mean I condone or accept any aggression or killing of innocent people let it be our citizens or others around the world. I try ardently to be a moral person. I also want the best for us as Americans I also want peace and senseless killing to cease. The soviet union fell not from bombs but from its flawed economic system. That there should say a lot.
There is a way to go to war in our Republic that is why we are a Republic not a dictatorship. Our House Of Representatives represent us and they make that decision.
Look up Obama Impeachment. The Bill is in the “House” now. Not too many know about it. The news has not reported it. They have reported about Iran though. be very aware of our Main stream media. the propaganda department is very alive in our government these days.
By csmp, May 1, 2012 @ 10:24 AM
I also think that it is very strange that our president Obama has gotten the Nobel Peace prize? He supports killing innocents.
I also Can’t respect a president we once had (G.W. bush), that made fun of the idea that He (we Americans) didn’t find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Remember the dinner speech he poked fun at himself and his administration.
These are the types of things us Americans need to wake up to. We need to question why we are not making better choices on who represents us at all levels of government.
By dalereese67, May 1, 2012 @ 11:25 AM
Jorn,
We can agree to disagree and I’m ok with that. I’ve gotta say though; the Iran/North Korea nuke situation has been going on long before Obama or even Bush and nobody has addressed it as it should have been.
Mark, Bush sent plenty of troops over without a real agenda (at least a public one). He played war up patriotism instead of Obama’s bringing troops back. I’d say this is an example of each being a salesman for their campaign.
As far as the Bin Laden thing… how would Bush have handled this differently? With how you’re playing up Bush’s heroics you act like if it were Bush he would have dove out of an airplane and got Bin Laden himself with a rusty paper clip.
By dalereese67, May 1, 2012 @ 11:26 AM
*should have been “war up as patriotism”
Sorry
By JornJensen, May 1, 2012 @ 1:17 PM
csmp - Excellent presentation and logic - I understand now what you meant. You may very well be correct on your discussion on Iran and North Korea - I’m a little nervous about it.
Regarding the Nobel Peace Prize, what a hoot! I was on a Sweden business trip, and stopped in Norway to visit relatives right when all of that was going on. They were ecstatic with Obama. What they did with the Nobel Peace Prize was to attempt to ‘buy’ the great apologizer-in-chief, in advance! I asked my cousins how they could justify giving a peace prize before any proven act of peace, to a guy not even in office? I still send them a dig every now and again on that topic. They send back Obama cartoons.
I highly applaud your final sentence, “We need to question why we are not making better choices on who reresents us at all levels of government.”
That is the multi-trillion dollar question in federal government, and it is the multi-million dollar question in local government.
I think a large part of the answer is that people want free stuff from the governing people, so, if there’s someone promising free stuff, vote for them! Also, people are uninformed and prefer to vote that way. Also, the cream of the crop doesn’t appear to be willing to run for government jobs. There may be hundreds of more reasons why we don’t make better choices in public leaders.
By mark, May 1, 2012 @ 2:06 PM
dalereese, only mention I made of Bush was obama fought his spy and surveillance prior to being president but wants the glory of it. Period.
I`m not glorifying Bush, never did. Looking for obama +`s, not Bush negatives. Why should I vote for obama? Please enlighten me before it`s too late. November is closing in fast. I`ll say it again, why should a non-entitlement voter such as me vote for obama? Thank you.
By jerry6, May 1, 2012 @ 4:34 PM
I know a minister who is a baptist, said he will not vote for Obama but will not vote for a Mormon so he isn’t going to vote.
I have a sister who lives in Erie and knows and is friends of some Muslims. She said they are very nice, decent people. We can’t lump one group of people in with other ones.
By jerry6, May 1, 2012 @ 4:35 PM
Jorn: You gave myself and some friends a great laugh when you wrote about Obama jogging down the steps of his plane. Also, how you said little kids will see him not holding onto the railing and is a bad influence on kids. Thanks for a great laugh.
By JornJensen, May 1, 2012 @ 6:33 PM
ASDpayer - I’m impressed how staunchly you support Obama in the face of all the facts presented against him. Take a look at wakeup’s post under the Bennett commentary - wakeup did a great presentation - if I were an Obama supporter, I’d find it very difficult to defend against wakeup’s post.
Then, look up Chuck Green on the internet - he is/was the staunch democrat editor of the liberal Denver Post Aurora Sentinel who writes opinions called “Greener Pastures” - he has one titled “Obama is Victim of Bush’s Failed Promises”. Pretty good reading.
By JornJensen, May 2, 2012 @ 7:31 AM
jerry6 - You are welcome. I laught at it also. Now that I’ve presented that, anyone who has read it will watch Obama’s next trip (get it? trip) down the airplane steps - guaranteed.
ASDpayer says that I’m being petty on such a topic. I presented a case where kids learn from ‘see and do’, so when they see him do that, then they rationalize that it is okay for them to do the same thing. Same goes for when John Kennedy and other presidents walked down the steps from an airplane - those of us from back then looked up to our president - he grabs the handrail and the teacher chews me out for not grabbing the handrail, then I should be more like the president - I should grab the handrail.
Enjoy the humor!
By csmp, May 2, 2012 @ 10:03 AM
So just yesterday a few hours after my last post did anyone get a chance to hear the presidents speech? My point was solidified. Our President announced the empire of the united states to be alive and well. we are staying in Afghanistan til at least 2024. We are not going to fix our country; we are going to “rebuild” theirs. I really hope everyone that is still fighting back and forth about whom to vote for wakes up. We are headed down the same road as the Roman empire, the British empire and the Soviet Empire. A lot of people’s “free stuff” will have to be extinguished if they are going to want a United States of America as we once knew it. We cant afford it. I think Mark mentioned it in a earlier post on this thread to one person but I am gonna say it to all, everyone needs to do some research, we as Americans need to WAKE UP! (frustration emphasized). there is only one party Republicrates is its name.
By wakeup, May 2, 2012 @ 11:09 AM
I am hard pressed to think of one accomplishment that President Obama has done that does not involve “spending” tax payer money?
I am hard pressed to think of one time he stood up in a difficult time or divide in this country and brought us together. I can think of many that he fueled the divide between class and race? A leader rises above politics and self interest for the good of the country.
For those that blame congress…..for 2 years house and senate were controlled by his party…..for the remaining 1 1/2 years his party controlled the Senate. So 1 1/2 years he was in office he did not control the house and that is why he could not get anything done? Really???
For those that blame Bush…I agree he failed…..so what the answer for the next 20 years every president gets a free pass when they fail? I am sorry I want a leader that will go in and fix their predecessors mess not use it as a crutch!
4 years 2 of which he controlled the House, Senate and Presidency….this guy had a chance to turn this country around and failed. This is too crucial of a time in our country to give second chances. “NEXT!”
By wakeup, May 2, 2012 @ 11:39 AM
CSMP - I agree. There is a false sense of security in this country that we are all too big to fail!!!!
That the Government will some how bail us out of any mess we get in too personally or as a nation! The entire banking/housing/car dealership mess solidified this belief in the back of many peoples minds.
It is that arrogance that you can spend what you want regardless of what your revenue/earnings are that bankrupts, people, businesses, communities and governments. The government will collapse if they cannot collect enough tax to support its expenses…….thats right the “rich” will bail us out they have plenty of money we can go after to to pay our wars, “free” health care, “free” government money, etc.
Guess what there will come a point you simply cannot make enough to pay off your debts from the years of spending more than you make. I wish people would wake up as well.
By Ron Townsend Jr., May 2, 2012 @ 12:41 PM
Bush is not the President anymore. If he made so many mistakes why hasn’t the great one fixed them? He has had 3 years. Just saying no one else has ever fixed a problem doesn’t cut it. Step up and do what you think is right, whether it be right or wrong, do something. Someone please name one thing Obama has accomplished that has been GOOD for this country. Taking out Bin Laden doesn’t count. The credit for that goes to our men and women in uniform. Politicians love to take credit for things they didn’t do and everyone else’s hard work. Neither does Obamacare, remember I said something good which I know is a matter of opinion. Somebody please give me one thing. I can give you a whole list of bad things.
By Ron Townsend Jr., May 2, 2012 @ 12:47 PM
Lucky1
I got no money from the stimulus plan. Not one penny. That money I was allowed to keep in my weekly pay check got taken back at the end of the year when I filed my federal return. Nasty little secret they didn’t tell you. And I don’t care who the president is, if you want to give me a tax cut I’ll take it. Lord knows I pay enough already! I am a Republican and not a hypocrite.
By JornJensen, May 2, 2012 @ 4:01 PM
csmp - Somewhere, I read or heard that an ‘empire’ lasts about 230 to 250 years (historically) until the people ‘bleed it out’. I concur with your statement regarding the road we’re headed down.
You’ll notice that the conservatives on this thread are not ‘pushing’ a candidate - they’re just ‘pushing’ against Obama remaining in office. On the other hand, the liberals are pounding on Mitt Romney as they defend Obama.
My personal opinion is that a cardboard likeness of John Kennedy or Ronald Reagan, sitting in ‘the chair’ in the oval office, could do a much better job than Obama. Obama would excel over the cardboard guys on the golf course.
By csmp, May 2, 2012 @ 11:44 PM
Jorn I read or heard the same statement about empires also. We are right there pushing the 240 mark so we better wake up soon. I also agree that anything would be better than Obama. Except Romney that is. Or Newt. Or Santorum. The liberals on here shouldn’t really worry one way or the other when it comes to these guys though they are all backed by the same big banks or big corporations that have their own agenda. Heck, with the turn out at this past election I doubt many of the sheeple would even notice the cardboard figure sitting in the oval office.
The government is not suppose to be my or anyone’s keeper.
I am not a selfish person but I do know that I am the one that needs to look out for myself and my family. I am also a moral person that knows when the right thing to do is help my fellow man but that is my choice. Nobody should force another to do things, that is an act of violence that is an act of aggression. There is never a time in a humans life when they should take from another. We should only harm others when ourselves or our families are threatened. Now with that said think of taxes and the policies of our government these days. This world would be a much better place if morals where thought of more often. Right and wrong seem to slip peoples minds when taxes are involved. These people that think “universal health care” is the right thing to do. They should think of the money that is taken by the barrel of a gun to support these types of taxes and that is just one of many reasons why this guy and others in government should all be voted out. I sit back and always wonder when did us Americans forget about the greatest document ever written, The Constitution. This president and many in the last 100 years have forgotten the importance that it has. The details that our forefathers thought about when writing it are timeless. This great American experiment is all going to come to a halt the further and further we get from it. Everyone on here that supports Obama just look up all the unconstitutional laws and regulations that he has signed. Unconstitutional czars he has appointed. We live in a time with one of the greatest research tools ever available (the computer) use it. I know the main stream media wont inform us.
I don’t care about the last president, this upcoming election will not have George Bush in it.
I am sorry about this rant I am just so frustratingly fed up.
By Interesting, May 3, 2012 @ 6:05 AM
The “cardboard cutout” is extremely appropriate because in many cases the President is just a figurehead. Oftentimes his hands are tied by Congress and he gets the fault as well as the blame for things that are beyond his control, whether he is a D or an R. Change must begin with our representatives working as a unit, which has not happened for some time and doesn’t appear that it will anytime soon.
By JornJensen, May 3, 2012 @ 11:29 AM
csmp - Interesting. I read your post and I could have written it verbatim. And I’m as frustratingly fed up as you are. I certainly don’t want the government to be my keeper - I am responsible for myself and my family. Agree, the constitution is a timeless document - heck, they didn’t even have computers and texting back then. Not even cell phones, not even wired phones!
I was invited to attend a Romney/Corbett visit at Saureisen down at RIDC Park tomorrow - declined.
If Obama and Biden were going to be there tomorrow, instead, #1 I’d probably not be invited. #2 I’d decline if I were invited.
If they all came to Kittanning tomorrow, I’d go to Butler.
I’ll be speaking at the Capitol building in Harrisburg, on Monday, regarding HB1776 sponsored by Representative Jim Cox, the Taxpayer Independence Act - the act to eliminate school property taxes and replace them with increased sales and income taxes. I believe that school districts should be forced to live within their means, just as much as it is my responsibility to live within my means. I fully realize that property taxes give districts a ‘fixed income stream’ that they can increase at-will, within some percentage. And, that sales and income taxes with be a variable income stream due to fluctuations in purchases and paychecks. I won’t give up on HB1776.
By JornJensen, May 3, 2012 @ 6:08 PM
wakeup - It is interesting that the liberals posting on this thread have not come forth with attacks regarding your two back-to-back posts of May 2 (11:09 AM & 11:39 AM)- surely there’s a way to blame that all on Bush or republican ‘obstructionism’. Surely.
By mark, May 3, 2012 @ 6:35 PM
csmp, I have read and reread your posts on this issue.
I admire your calm, logical, mature, patriotic, unattacking opinions. I could comment in a similar way if I didn`t read some of the other posts. Some people,I feel, don`t have their best interests in our country.We are , and have always been, the best game in town, the USA.
I never got involved in politics until politics began getting negatively involved with my family and our future. It is indeed a pleasure to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
By out&about, May 3, 2012 @ 10:07 PM
Why is the thought of an empire ending such an atrocity? It is utter arrogance to assume that the U.S. Of A will exist forever. Please explain why this country is better than any that has ever existed.
By mark, May 4, 2012 @ 11:34 AM
out and about, your comment doesn`t even deserve this reply.
By ASDpayer, May 4, 2012 @ 2:41 PM
Good grief. Who says an empire has only 200 years. The Roman Empire lasted about 600. Others like the Third Reich just 12 years. We really haven’t been an empire that long. Maybe 70. We are still the richest nation with the biggest economy, and a few blips in the housing market or the unemployment rate do not diminish us. China with its billion people has an economy that is one fourth as large as ours. We’re doing okay, despite what all the politicians hype with their 30 second sound bites. Can we improve—sure.
By csmp, May 4, 2012 @ 8:40 PM
Thanks Mark, now out&about I wouldn’t call it arrogance. I would like to hope that the most free Nation to have ever existed in history (opinion)keep on existing. I also am not afraid if it doesn’t as I hope to one day go to Gods Empire. But freedom, as I see it, is a “right” that we must never forget, and that I would hope to never live without. Without Liberty we have Tyranny. Which one do you really want. The Constitution is my answer to why this country is better than any that has ever existed.
By wakeup, May 4, 2012 @ 11:45 PM
Out&about-the atrocity is the blood our ancestors shed to give people like you the freedom to spew your ignorance. The atrocity is you see nothing wrong with putting an end to all that was given up so that you may live without tyranny or oppression.
The biggest atrocity is you are allowed to live in this country …… In my mind if we forced people like you to leave and allowed those who respected all this country stands for to enter …….it would get back to that beacon on a hill that would last for ever!
By scott_starr, May 5, 2012 @ 1:25 AM
@Outandabout:
I think the answer is that this country, in the document of it’s founding said that Right are guaranteed by our CREATOR, ( not government, a king, or anything else), Americans were BORN with these rights.
That is what makes it great, rights are not man-given they are endowed by a Creator…. one reason why atheisim makes me nervous, if our rights are not given by a creator, then they are given by man…. which means man can take them away.
By out&about, May 5, 2012 @ 1:31 PM
Csmp… I agree arrogance was too much. Nice answer. I too appreciate what freedoms are afforded here, but I don’t rule out the hope that there might one day be something better. I also expected a response like Mark’s. The idea of change is very hard to accept for most people even when it will be change for the better. Often for good reason because most systemic changes cause a negative effect first and only then begin to show growth/gains/improvement or what ever you are trying to do.
By mark, May 5, 2012 @ 10:54 PM
outandabout, explain this change that you see bringing growth/gains/improvement. Can you tell me what to do to bring this about. Our grandchildren are counting on us. I`ll ask you as I`ve asked other posters, please enlighten me. I`m very interested to hear about this. I hope you don`t let me down. I`m serious. No sarcasm. Thank you.
By JornJensen, May 6, 2012 @ 7:23 AM
out&about- Your message is quite vague. Are you endorsing a ‘change’ away from capitalism to socialism? Are you saying that the change that we’re going through with Obama is change for the better? Are you defending the 3.5 year negative effect of Obama’s policies in the form that sometimes there’s a ‘dip’ (negative effect)ahead of the gain? Is this your message? Really?
Please clarify.
ASDpayer - Our worldwide credit rating has been lowered under the current administration’s fiscal policies - that means less investment in us by others. Means that the dollar drops in worldwide value. Would you call that one of the “few blips”? Doesn’t that de-rating diminish us some? I think you’re still saying that we’re the best - that we can improve - and to that, I agree.
I have taught induction heat treating principles and practices in South American companies to very good people - very intelligent and very eager to learn - good management/worker relationships. I see South America as a coming world power (collectively). Argentina, Brazil and Chile have been buying (our dollar devalued, their currency worth more + good investment)up US manufacturing companies in the United States. Gerdau is one of those, Teneris is another.
By Tankster, May 6, 2012 @ 3:20 PM
To Jorn & mark
Where have you guys been? Seriously, I ask this without sarcasm.
The writing on the wall have become very evident for several decades now. This is not something that sprouted up over the last few years. I think you need to look way back to the 60′s for the actual time when the shift began.
I have no idea about the opinions of out&about. I am giving you my opinion, so please do not take it that I am speaking for anybody else on this board.
When corporate interests entered into one what some say is a “collusion” with our governmental representatives, the shift began. It was the fleecing of America. It was hid under the anthem of “capitalism.” Now, I am not a supporter of socialism, but I am a supporter of some regulations. These regulations would mostly deal with the trade issues. This is where the shift began. If the American worker had a fair playing field, then we would not have saw the exodus of decent-paying jobs to Third World countries. Many of us were ignorant to this when it first began, and nobody spoke up because would be an attack on capitalism. This went on for decades and now we are seeing the product of what we have sewn.
Should we lower the standard of living in the United States?
Keep raising taxes to make up for the lost tax base, because we are now entering into an economy based on the service industry? The service industry jobs do not have very many decent-paying jobs. Where do we make up for the lost revenue? In the history of the world, there has been sovereign country which has a successful economy based on the service industry. Something to think about.
We can keep cutting services until the chickens come back to roost, but that is still not going to fix this economy and make us a successful and robust economy.
It comes back to decent-paying jobs.
We can lower the corporate taxes down to nothing, but then somebody is going to have to find out a way how American workers are going to compete with the very low wages and no benefits which are seen in the overseas economies.
The change has been occurring for decades. Look around you. This area itself in Western PA tells a whole story in itself. We know the industries are not coming back, but what have we replaced them with in regards to the void left in the overall national economy and local economy?
I have not seen an answer have you?
By Tankster, May 6, 2012 @ 5:41 PM
I just wanted to clarify in my previous posting that there has been NO successful economy based on the service industry. Too many risks and factors.
By JornJensen, May 6, 2012 @ 10:08 PM
Tankster - I don’t disagree with you regarding the downward spiral we’ve been been in since the mid to late 60′s. And, I’ve been known to state on this board that we have the infrastructure to mostly ‘supply our own’, so tax all incoming products at ports and borders. Others have criticized me for this position of protectionism, but, with some protectionism, we could create jobs - jobs that have gone overseas. Look at Eljer Plumbingware - a toilet is now shipped 1/2 way around the world while we’re perfectly capable to make toilets here. So, tax Chinese toilets at 100% at the left coast ports and we’ll be making toilets again and the government can have a wonderful income stream.
Brazil has a ‘protectionist’ economy - companies must buy from Brazilian manufacturers - if a specialized product is not available on the Brazilian market, then a company may buy from out of the country, plus a tariff. That’s how I ended up working in Brazil for a while - no Brazilian comapny made the equipment that we make, so we were ‘in’.
Where have I been? I’ve lived it, and I believe mark has also. I think tourism is the last frontier for Armstrong County - need to think up some far-fetched scheme to fill the hotels steady.
By out&about, May 6, 2012 @ 10:18 PM
Tankster … I think you hit on many of the issues at hand. I would include entitlement in your list … both the handout kind and the kind where people believe they deserve more than they can afford.
Jorn & Mark … I wish I knew the answer, honestly, for the sake of the generations to come. What it is we need to do, or where we need to (metaphorically) go? What I do know is that what we have now is not working. Virtually all levels of gov’t are broke both here and abroad and the only thing the system does is promote the system. I am not advocating a move BACK to socialism or anything else for that matter. I think we need to look FORWARD to something NEW. I began to admit to myself a couple years ago that we are more than a few subtle tweaks away from fixing the system we have. I wish I had the answer, but truthfully and sadly I have only more questions. I love this country, but wish my generation could make it better instead of what I’m afraid is quite the opposite.
In addition, I was not trying to explain away the last 3.5 years of losses in my change scenario, but it is true that change comes hard. I don’t like the vast new health care empire, but after being self-employed for several years know the struggle to take care of my family’s needs. Again…no answer only a question.
By mark, May 7, 2012 @ 6:13 PM
Agreed problems started decades ago. Too much power in office. No accountability in most elected officials. Voters used to have say-so. Voters got apathetic. Officials got more power. Officials laughed about our apathy and legislated their way to where we are today. Voters didn`t squauk till it affected their little bubble they lived in. Squauking voters waited too long and the officials have legislated their way into the lions share of the voters.When they take our defenses away as the`re doing now, we`re done.We have become divided in my eyes. Taxpayers and entitlement receivers. Maybe disarm, divide and conquer?
Excuse my simple terms but I`m a simple guy. Thank you.
By JornJensen, May 7, 2012 @ 8:52 PM
Well, I think we all ought to meet at McDonald’s for coffee in the morning and see what other worldly problems we can solve……..
Back to election results, has anyone paid attention to the number of PA votes that Obama got in his 100% win in the democratic primary election? 95,000.
But the ‘contested’ democratic races like senator and representative, votes were way over 95,000. Does that mean that some democratic voters are showing disapproval of Obama? Or, was there just no need to vote there as it made no difference? November will be interesting.
By Tankster, May 7, 2012 @ 9:38 PM
Well, mark, if you feel that way then it really does not matter who the president will be, because they are all striving for the same goal. What role does Congress play in this? And before we all beating the Obama tambourine, let’s remember, less than a decade ago, there was GOP president, a GOP Congress and a conservative Supreme Court and nothing changed. It just kept getting worse. The “trickle down theory” that Reagan lauded has been reduced to nothing more than failed logic. Clinton’s big economic boom was nothing more than a short dot-com bubble which really had nothing to do with him and bottomed out faster than it was established. We witnessed 09/11 and ti seems the bottom fail out of the country economically and we had Dubbya with his “you’re either with us or against us” polices followed by the Leader of the Great Change…Mr. Obama. Now, mark, you tell me, what is Obama or Romney going to do to bring about the change to get this country moving in a positive manner? Ah, yeah, do not forget about that pesky bunch in Congress. What good have they done for the American people? All those supposed great minds and nobody can formulate a good plan of bi-partisanship to start getting things in order. No, we will be bombarded with talk of gun control, abortion, religion, crimes, etc, to keep our focus shifted as we continue to play the little game of them having us believe that there is really is one good party looking out for us. Let’s talk jobs! Which side is winning on this topic? If you say the Dems or the GOP, you lose all credibility with your audience, because both sides have been bought and sold to out-source and streamline the jobs and opportunities of the American worker all in the name of profit no matter the cost and effect it has on the citizens.
By wakeup, May 8, 2012 @ 9:27 AM
Tankster- your frustration is felt by many including myself. However, it is we the people that give these parties this power with every new or expanded government program we support. We want the federal government to take care of us, the environment, the poor, health care, our retirement, prescriptions drugs, etc etc etc. We cannot ask the federal government to “take care” of us the turn around and cry they have too much power.
Same goes for taxes….The Federal Government is just a broker that uses our money to play the wealthy uncle to buy votes and power through “free” government programs!!
I do not care what party people think they belong too….stop growing the size of the federal government….in fact shrink it before it is too late!!
By mark, May 8, 2012 @ 12:05 PM
wakeup and tankster, agree with you both but now we have reached a point in this discussion that happens in almost every issue. Everyone has submitted their opinions on whose fault this pitiful state of affairs is. I see nothing that this administration has done yet to resolve it. If they have, please tell me what it is.
Next, I agree that both sides have faults but both sides have ALL the power. The miracle man, whoever they might be, cannot do battle with the two big guns.
Again, we as apathetic voters from the past have allowed this to come about.
Outandabout suggested I don`t understand we have to suffer some before positives come about but I think we have suffered enough and asked him or her to suggest what we can do… no answers from that question.
We as voters only have limited choices in this election and they are Bad or Worse. We only think we have a say but we really don`t.
I fear a separation of the country, which might be a good thing, or a crash or collapse.
Whatever happens is out of our control and has been for many decades.
I`ll prepare for the worst and hope to be surprised. Thank you.
By JornJensen, May 8, 2012 @ 12:39 PM
wakeup - Two thumbs up for your post of 9:27 AM, Tuesday, May 8, 2012! Best post out of the 76 posts.
If the government ‘takes care of’ enough of us, we become ‘subjects’.
Look at Murtha amphitheater - John Murtha got us the money to do that. How much of each tax dollar that we paid came back to us in the form of this earmark (pork)? 17 cents? Thanks, but no thanks.
By Tankster, May 8, 2012 @ 5:08 PM
wakeup & Jorn,
I also agree with your opinions on smaller and limited government. The thing that makes me worrisome and somewhat paranoid is that the job situation is what has opened the doors for the opportunities to expand and grow bigger government. It seems to me that there is an authority or power out there that may be getting exactly what they want. None of this making sense and that is why I am thinking this may be a move to knock down our standard living. Remove all of the smooth talk about how those “free” trade agreements will allow Third World countries to boost their standard of living. I believe the opposite has occurred. We are moving, also….except we are moving down to meet those other countries.
We can complain about the size of big government and want it to be smaller, but that is just a by-product of the much bigger problem. The problem is jobs!
I am probably older than most of you on here but if you look back when there was industry in this area. There were people who would be characterized as being challenged or disabled employed by places like Eljer and PPG. they made good lives for themselves, because they did not need to be rocket scientists, the job paid good wages and there was no reason for them to look for any type of assistance. they were probably also more satisfied. If we believe in all of this baloney that everybody will have to be mathematicians or biologists to get a decent job and make decent money then we are going to leave a large number of people behind and somebody will need to support them.
Smaller government is a goal, but the much bigger goal is turning this issue around with the jobs. The trade is probably one of the most critical, if not the most critical, issue that needs addressed quickly, and this issue is always pushed to the side by candidates. they sprinkle in a few buzzwords like they did about reviewing NAFTA, but nothing is ever done. We keep coming back to that we live in a global marketplace. Well, who put is in this global marketplace? Let’s get out of it. We got in it, so why can’t we get out? Maybe because we owe money to the big players in the trade game.
mark, there is no BAD or WORSE….they are the same. Don’t believe me…just look back over the last two to three decades. It really does not matter. As far as administrations go, they are not the problem. The biggest problem facing us is reforming Congress not changing presidents.
By mark, May 8, 2012 @ 10:20 PM
Tankster, but doesn`t one encompass the other? Sometimes when you flush, it doesn`t all go down. Huge problem that takes years to solve but I still haven`t heard from the present leader`s supporters as to what has this man has done so far? 5T more debt, no jobs, bailouts, more boys die with no agenda, and yes past leader did a lot of the same but where`s “The Change?”Not sold at all on this dude. Wanna flush again and take my chances. Absolutely no positives with this administration. None, zero, zip! If you see something I`m missing, tell us. Thank you.