Ford City Borough Council Still Without Meeting Space
Borough Vice-President Jerry Miklos was surprised fire department officials weren’t more cooperative in allowing for Council to meet at the second-floor room in 2015.
by Jonathan Weaver
Only eight days remain in 2014 (and less than three weeks before their first regular meeting), but Ford City Borough Council is still trying to find a place to conduct business in 2015.
In a letter written to Borough Manager Eden Ratliff, Hose Company #1 President Brian Cesare said members unanimously decided not to allow council members to use the space
“..Since Day one when this building was built, the second floor was added for only the fire departments use. It was given to us by that council completely empy except for the concrete block walls and structural steel that was showing with the understanding we must do everything to finish and maintain the areas, but it would be our area,” Cesare said. “So, as usual, in good faith, the volunteer firemen designed and finished their new room with their own funding.”
Cesare said that includes $16,000 to repair air conditioning and $11,000 for lighting upgrades recently.
Firefighters suggested either renting the 10th Street Station for meetings or to purchase an empty lot.
Councilman Josh Abernathy recommended leasing the space since funding is not available to purchase a new space.
“If the fire department wants to make it a private club, let’s lease it to them for whatever it costs us for a place to have our meetings,” Abernathy said. “That’s essentially what it is – a private club up there - , even though we pay to heat the building and everything else.
“Everybody’s saying ‘work together,’ but it just doesn’t seem like they want to work together.”
Fire Chief Scott Gaiser said Borough Secretary Lisa Bittner divides up the incoming electric bill each month into thirds - between the Borough office, police department and fire department. He also said there have been other instances when fire fighters purchased their own equipment that the Borough was supposed to pay for initially.
Councilman Jerry Miklos said the space is not desired for Council’s interest and recalled a meeting with insurance brokers where advanced notice was requested, but everyone had to wait outside before the room was open.
“I thought it was rather rude and insulting,” Miklos said. “The Borough has no facility of its own to use, and we’re not asking for our own private space – we’re conducting public business. This is in the public interest.
“It’s kind-of disappointing that the fire department wouldn’t be more-cooperative,” he later added.
Former Borough Councilman Lou Vergari said firefighters feel they will lose control of the space, despite allowing occasional meetings in the space with previous notice.
“We ask for volunteers to man that truck – if you’re working with volunteers, you have to give them some leeway,” Vergari said. “I see their point – they keep our town safe during fires.
“It’s a tightrope.”
Borough Manager Eden Ratliff and other council members have discussed upgrading the space to become handicapped accessible.
“The Council would rather put money into the Borough Building and something that’s going to benefit the fire department rather than money somewhere else,” Ratliff said.
Council members were taken aback when Cesare said disbanding the department would please a few members of Council.
“I don’t know any member of Council who has any desire to do that,” Councilwoman Vicki Schaub said.
“If we lose the fire department, this town’s in trouble – real trouble,” Mayor Marc Mantini added. “This fire department’s been here for over a century – cool heads have to prevail here.”
Chief Gaiser will talk with department representatives and trustees and try to arrange a meeting with fellow Fire Committee Members Abernathy and Miklos before the end of 2014.
In other news, the next special meeting will not only allow council members to come to a final decision on the 2015 budget, but also whether to build the new water treatment system without the chemical fluoride.
Borough taxpayers will be able to comment on the issue at the 6PM meeting Monday at the Borough library.
Miklos, who has long been opposed to government intervention with the fluoride, said the chemical mainly prevents children from tooth decay – if consumed – but rather that most water can be used for cleaning and fire protection.
“It’s not the government’s job to do that – all toothpaste has fluoride in it. Fluoride is a naturally-recurring substance in our water anyway. Why are we adding more? To me, it’s absurd.”
The removal of additional fluoride will also save taxpayers a nominal amount of money and equipment maintenance.
Council hopes for a response from the Department of Environmental Protection on plans for the water plant by February.
Local News | jweaver December 23, 2014
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By mad-2010, December 23, 2014 @ 8:45 AM
Can anyone tell me Who owns the building the Fire Dept. or the Boro? Thanks
By MikeFC, December 23, 2014 @ 8:58 AM
What happened to the library? Or are they sick of this council too?
By mad-2010, December 23, 2014 @ 10:18 AM
Ford City residents pay 2.89 mils in taxes allocated for the Fire Dept. but taxpayers can’t have a council meeting in the Fire Dept. building, something just isn’t right here.. Does anyone have any answers, Thanks
By savvynewshound, December 23, 2014 @ 9:25 PM
A new all time low. BUT, this time it’s not the council. I hope council remembers this decision when the firemen want to have their little festivals or battle the barrel.
You’ll need council’s approval to shut streets down.
By sbmworker, December 25, 2014 @ 11:03 AM
I believe all volunteer fire departments have their own social room. This is not out of the ordinary. I don’t blame them for not wanting to open it to the public. As stated in the letter, they have made that room what it is. Who would be held accountable for damage, stolen items, etc., if you have 50 or more people there? Why do town councils always go after the volunteers? Same as Kittanning’s council personal attack on Company 110. I hope if council pursues this and takes this off these volunteer men and women, they leave the room the way they got it, steel beams and concrete block. Abernathy, really? Charge them rent when it is a volunteer organization? You sound like a real idiot there! Fully support Mayor Mantini on his comment!
By mad-2010, December 25, 2014 @ 10:50 PM
I agree with you savvynewshound.. Given the fact that in 2011 the Fire Dept. wanted the money from the sale of the old fire truck to go into the Fire Dept. Fund, even though the old fire truck was purchased by the Boro-taxpayers! To dictate to council like they (the Fire Dept.) own the building, when they Do Not. It’s just not right and I’m sure they could and should help council and the Taxpayers of Ford City with this matter..
By sickofpayingforit, December 26, 2014 @ 1:13 AM
Ehhh. I say leave the firemen have their building. We should count ourselves fortunate that there are people willing to volunteer for this duty and if that building is considered a perk, so be it. Cheaper than the alternative, anyday.
By bob, December 26, 2014 @ 1:02 PM
Pretty sure the upstairs is not handicapped accessible anyhow, so you wouldn’t be able to hold a public meeting in that location. I agree with taking the fluoride out of the water supply. If people want their child to ingest fluoride, they can get a prescription from the Dr. or dentist and give them a pill. No need for the adults to be ingesting this and no reason to be dumping it into the allegheny.
By rainman, December 29, 2014 @ 6:17 PM
As usual mad 2010 you are totally clueless. Mad 2010 I will not threaten you because I do not big daddy after me.
By mad-2010, December 29, 2014 @ 7:42 PM
Rainman If you want a debate, just bring it, I’m game! Clueless about what? If you are still stuck on me being Tyson, you are the one that’s Clueless. Don’t let that small town make you Paranoid. I thought it was fun when I was stuck there at one time, now it’s more of a mess!
P.S. If all you have is just two sentences you may want to start with small fries first, before you Roll with me!!
By jd718, December 29, 2014 @ 11:47 PM
rainman, Maybe you need to Grow Up and stop being Foolish.
By mad-2010, December 30, 2014 @ 1:48 AM
Hey rainman… I’m up late going over some reports, hoped you had more of your Sylvia Browne act going on the blog,Sugar Britches.. Guess You Can’t Hang! LOL
By local410, December 30, 2014 @ 5:10 AM
This is a joke. There is no reason you should treat your bread and butter with such disrespect. I dont think they would like to to much if they pulled the mil tax, sold the truck they pay for and ask them to pay full rent on the building. Once a month to hold a town meeting and this is how they act? I agree, they should maybe think of this when they want to do there half-baked fundraising. Most companies have to bend over backwards to keep there council happy and still fundraise like crazy not breeze through. Combine the 3 local companies, save money, more trained men under one roof and faster response
By mad-2010, December 30, 2014 @ 11:50 AM
Hey rainman… For starters how about you teach everyone the most up-to-date methods on how to derive a persons real name from a username on a blog.. Please, no hick type-fueled ignorance or intolerance projecting a stark contradiction to any Reality, just the real skinny on how you do it! LOL I’m sure to be highly entertained by your “outreach” to the broader Community!
One Question: With Ford City just a little bigger than a postage stamp, why not find this Tyson fellow you have a Beef with and go Face to Face with the guy? Most Men would prefer this method as opposed to making ones self look moronic on some blog! Back in the 70′s that’s how we Rolled, try it…
By dirty ratz, December 31, 2014 @ 3:45 AM
Rainman
You call mad 2010 clueless and then you write.” I will not threaten you because I do not big daddy after me.” No wonder your off the town council.
By jorn jensen, December 31, 2014 @ 6:47 AM
When money and jobs are strong, it is much easier to ‘lead’ a town. When it is broke, like Ford City, that is when it takes real leadership (hint: don’t call Obama).
The fire company, police and council need to work together in such a situation, not be bickering. The police were wrong to pull up the power of their union to force the hiring of a police officer that the town can’t afford. The firemen are wrong to distance themselves from council - pull the nice, shiny firetrucks outside in the rain and snow and use the road-level space for public meetings - that solves the handicapped access. After the meeting, put the trucks back in and wipe them off. Everyone on council should give up their pay until Ford City comes back. Use some common sense, people.
Until these 3 groups realize what their true responsibility is to the town, things won’t get better in Ford City.
By sbmworker, December 31, 2014 @ 7:16 AM
To Local 410 - I believe it would be used more than once a month for a meeting. I am under the understanding that they have used their room quite a few times in a month for “private” meetings. As for the festival, that is for the community as this used to occur years ago. Just bringing some entertainment into the town and some fun. Too bad some people are so misinformed. By what I gather, there was a lot more to this than what was printed. Someday each one of you negative people about the FCFD may need them. Until then, they are unappreciated! One thing for sure, they would be there when you need them the most regardless of your clueless nonsense!
By jd718, December 31, 2014 @ 10:21 AM
@ local410, I agree with you 100%, the town is in debt and is looking for help, to disrespect council and the taxpayers is wrong plain & simple.
Funds from taxes for the Fire Dept. are around 72,000.00. Hypothetically speaking, If as you say they (council) pulled the mil tax and then sold the fire truck, and if possible contracted say with Manor Twp. Fire Dept. to handle the towns needs, and paid Manor Twp. say 30,000.00. Council and the taxpayers would be left with 42,000.00. If council used the remainder (42,000.00) per year to payoff the 581,000.00 EDA debt, a large concern for the taxpayer and town could be over. Now, that would be a good reason the Fire Dept. should be more respectful of council and the taxpayers of Ford City.
By mad-2010, December 31, 2014 @ 11:07 AM
rainman… Did it sink into your thick head yet that I’m Not Tyson, if not I got more if you need it! LOL
By mad-2010, December 31, 2014 @ 11:50 AM
Dirty Ratz… Please tell me it’s not true that this guy was on the town council at one time. If it’s true, all I can say is OMG!!
By mad-2010, January 1, 2015 @ 7:12 AM
Sickof.. ” Cheaper than the alternative, any day.” Can you explain what alternative you mean in that post?
By sbmworker, January 1, 2015 @ 10:42 AM
People should know that there are two sides to every story. You got FC Council’s side. We all know what liars they are; however everyone is ready to bash the fire department. You don’t hear the firemen talking bad. I would love to hear the whole story, not one side of it. You people are so quick to judge! Who the heck would trust good ole Jerry? Make sure you have all the information first!
By mad-2010, January 1, 2015 @ 4:10 PM
Sickof… In your 12-1-2014 post concerning the police hiring of a full time officer, you stated. ” The council had a budget, they made a decision, and some arbitrator is telling them how to run FC?” I agree with you. So, following that Logic can’t one say in this case with the Fire Dept. “The council had a plan, they made a decision, and some Volunteer Firemen are telling them how to run Ford City.” I think the bigger issue is, should any outside entity arbitrator or Fire Dept. be allowed to dictate to a local government? I think common sense would tell you No, not under any circumstance should it be allowed…
By mad-2010, January 1, 2015 @ 5:18 PM
Sickof.. One more thing here: What legal rights would a Volunteer Fire Dept. have to decide what to do with Boro-taxpayer owned property. Talk about absurd, come-on!
By jd718, January 1, 2015 @ 8:44 PM
@ local410, Also, because of the rude and arrogant comments directed at council, I’d ask the Fire Dept. for a formal apology to council and the taxpayers of Ford City. If the Fire Dept. was unwilling to apologize, council should place sanctions on the Fire Dpt. for the remainder of 2015.
By sickofpayingforit, January 1, 2015 @ 11:16 PM
mad-
Volunteer firemen are just that, from what I understand. I don’t know all the in’s and out’s of the business of running a small town, but I assume those guys don’t get paid. With that, somehow, we still have guys suiting up to fight fires in lots of small towns. It is almost a right of passage for some families, with generations of the same family serving. I just don’t see the harm of letting these guys have a room that is un-molested, to socialize in. That room is MUCH CHEAPER than paying people to be firemen. FC can’t even afford to pay policemen, how would they be able to pay for firemen??? Also, if they were paid firemen, they would unionize immediately and that room would be off-limits to anyone they didn’t want in there, you better believe that. So, we still have relatively cheap fire protection and should allow the volunteers to have their social room to themselves.
By mad-2010, January 1, 2015 @ 11:38 PM
sbmworker.. I agree there maybe two sides to this story, and I don’t think any of the posters here don’t appreciate what these Firemen do. Regardless of what you think of Ford City Council, they are elected officials with the task of governing the town of Ford City.
The Fire Dept. took a vote to decide what council could do with Boro-taxpayer owned property, simply put, it’s not there job or right to do so. Who’s running the town, the Fire Dept. or the elected officials with the authority given them by the citizens of Ford City? Can you allow an outside entity (Fire Dept.) to dictate to your local government, No..
By tired of dumb people, January 2, 2015 @ 2:36 AM
you know all you people bashing the fire dept maybe you should join they get out of bed in the middle of the night miss meals and miss time with there loved one’s on holidays. And they do this all for free. And where would the money come from to put into making this part of building handicapped excesable they say grants they can’t even fill out paper work to get a grant for a police car and what is wrong with the boro buying the lot beside the fire dept and putting a pole building up i bet it would cost less to do that than the upstairs of the fire dept. People need to wake up and the comment use manor do you really think they would want anything to do with this bunch of misfits.
By mad-2010, January 2, 2015 @ 8:22 AM
sbmworker.. Something to think about, if you live in Ford City, you’re riding in a half submerged ship, if you don’t do the right thing and band together and start bailing that ship, you back-side is going to sink, your ship is lost!!
By fc2010, January 2, 2015 @ 10:18 AM
@jd718: Sanctions against a volunteer Fire Dept quick being ridiculous! These guys are volunteer, fight fires, respond with EMS to medical calls and car wrecks. How about you sign up to be a firefighter then, but it takes a lot of training and pride to do so. Ever hear of an incentive… these guys are allowed to have a hall upstairs for training and fundraisers don’t take a hall from them because firefighters need more training in the world anymore. Furthermore, a letter to the taxpayers isn’t needed. I give respect in some of your previous comments, but your only 2,999 out of 3,000 people in the borough of Ford City and thats if you live inside the borough limits.
By MikeFC, January 3, 2015 @ 10:21 AM
sbmworker is like the only person commenting that makes any sense, thank you!
By mad-2010, January 3, 2015 @ 5:32 PM
sbmworker.. This whole issue is borderline: Obstruction of Governmental Operations, which is illegal by the way…. I could be wrong, but…
By mad-2010, January 3, 2015 @ 10:31 PM
sbmworker… Obstruction of Governmental Operations is a Class A or Class 1 misdemeanor punishable by up to 5 years in prison, Wow! Now that’s something to Really think about! I wouldn’t want to make a mistake like that, life change, big time…
By mad-2010, January 5, 2015 @ 1:10 AM
sickof.. We have both run on the comment section for some time now, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. To me the Bigger issue is the rights of the local government along with legal rights of Boro property. If they need to share the room for financial reasons of the town, they should. Regardless of what their function to the community they are Not Above the government in charge of running the town.
By mad-2010, January 5, 2015 @ 2:28 AM
I’ll bet the local government of Kittanning would never put-up with this kind of Okey-Doke Jazz!
By local410, January 5, 2015 @ 3:37 AM
I would like to know how i am out of line? Ford City is a dead town and ready to roll over. None of this crap matters if we dont bring jobs and people into this town anyway. Who cares if there is a police force, fire company, new water plant, meeting hall if there are no people left in the town. With that said, nobody wants to see a fire company in trouble or shut down. We all love and respect them. Again, with that said, do you actually know if they train and how much or Do you know how much they fund raise compared to most companies. A room to do this in is jsut a scapegoat to sit up in the bar to drink without anyone bothering them. But thats besides the point. These people are volunteers. The general public did not vote for these people or know exactlly what there tax money goes into and im sure would flip if they actually knew. So why do volunteers out rule elected officials? And yes, the ford city boro and its tax payers are its bread adn butter and should put alot of thought into that. My comment was this, if you took Manor Twp, Ford Cliff and Ford City fire companies, put them under one roof. You would have more members under one roof, training together, working together and not having an overkill of equiptment(alot of money) on the road for no reason. Not splitting up tax money into 3 minor companies that when they get on scene hate each other. Heck Manor Twp doesnt even go into Ford City Boro! Those 3 companies cover one community which is ford city. It needs to happen and drop these borders! Manor, Ford City, who cares, we are all one community, so why not have one company. SAVE MONEY, and have a better department and do the same with the police. I agree manor council will probably want nothing to do with ford city, but if pitched right i.e. will save them money for example splitting workmans comp insurance is a big sell and also they would still be volunteers? And yes, it could be for just once a month and have in a written agreement that it can only be used for the monthly meeting. These sneaky closed door meeting can be done im sure just in the boro office area maybe.
By local410, January 5, 2015 @ 5:20 AM
and to add, the fire service is here to protect and provide for the COMMUNITY. Its a perk and its nice to bond with there brothers but its not a social club or hangout. It should be a professional place for the COMMUNITY. So when your community is in dire need of help, you should help. The volunteer fireman are a dying breed and hard to recruit. These small town politics and minds dont help. So again, if u focus it all under one roof, and not spread it out and promote hatred for your fellow community dept it doesnt help. Just some food for thought
By mad-2010, January 5, 2015 @ 8:29 AM
sbmworker… An example of Obstructing governmental operations.
(a) A person commits the crime of obstructing governmental operations if, by means of intimidation, physical force or interference or by any other independently unlawful act, he:
(1) Intentionally obstructs, impairs or hinders the administration of law or other governmental function; or
(2) Intentionally prevents a public servant from performing a governmental function.
(b) This section does not apply to the obstruction, impairment or hindrance of the making of an arrest.
(c) Obstructing governmental operations is a Class A misdemeanor.
By mad-2010, January 5, 2015 @ 8:58 AM
sbmworker.. The Fire Dept. Knows it has little legal say about Boro Property. To me this is just a Bogus Hard Ball Power Play by the Power Brokers in the background of the Fire Dept. The talking heads who’s names you see in print are not the power brokers in the background..
By mad-2010, January 5, 2015 @ 9:34 AM
JJ.. This reminds me of the Power Play the air traffic controllers tried to pull on Reagan, we know what happened with that!
By savvynewshound, January 5, 2015 @ 9:39 AM
Tired of dumb people - punctuation and spell check will help your cause.
The council wanting to have a meeting in your “social room” does not mean our fire department is not appreciated.
sbmworker - “why do councils go after volunteer organizations?”
1. they are not going after anyone. They’re looking for a place to have a meeting a few times a month.
2. they (we) pay for the building and many of your assets.
3. yes, Manor and Ford Cliff are readily available to help out.
In my opinion, it’s time to consolidate everything…Youth football, Little League/Pony League, fire and police departments, road crews, lions clubs etc. It’s going to work for the schools right?
By jd718, January 5, 2015 @ 11:26 AM
@fc2010, You said: “these guys are allowed to have a hall upstairs” My question to you is: Who allows these guys to have a hall upstairs? I really don’t think I need say more….
By jorn jensen, January 5, 2015 @ 10:02 PM
Mad - you have about 20 comments on this topic, so it must really be on your hotplate. From the best that I can gather from your comments, I think we basically agree - that is good, as much as we disagree on so many other things. I think the police and firemen owe it to the town to ‘work with council’ rather than adding more costs to council and the taxpayers.
Some other discussions are about consolidation. Any good, sensible leadership knows that in lean, or ‘decreasing times’, consolidation normally makes fiscal sense. Examples abound. West Kittanning Boro police service and the idea of hiring Kittanning Boro police - same money, more coverage. Makes simple sense. School district - 1974 15,000 students, today about 5,500 students. Might just be time to consolidate the school district.
So, if you want to consolidate police departments or fire departments, that might just make good, simple fiscal sense - just don’t spend $80 million on new fire houses or police stations.
By tired of dumb people, January 6, 2015 @ 1:19 AM
savvynewshound thank you for being my english teacher i am not from ford city just know how they feel from being a fire fighter from aonther state that our town did not think the fire dept was worth having
By mad-2010, January 6, 2015 @ 7:23 AM
savvynewshound… You would have my vote to consolidate… Really, what other alternative could help a financial situation like this, do what needs to be done and live together as happy as you can…
By sbmworker, January 6, 2015 @ 7:32 AM
jd718 - By what I understand, this was ‘given’ to them by a former council many, many years ago when a verbal agreement meant something (which to most of you commenting on here and FC council would not understand). Where should the FD hold their meetings, training, and after pulling someone out of a fire in the middle of the night (which has been done)regroup, etc.? As stated in the letter wrote above from the FD, remember they put every cent that went into that room. So council needs to remember what they see is probably not what the get. By the way, do any of you volunteer for anything? Doubt it. My taxes go to FC too. The very small portion that goes to the FD, is well deserving. I want protection right in my town. I wish council would have published the whole letter, but they chose certain sentences. You people have very little minds on here, very little. Anyone who believes good ole Jerry and his council, I feel sorry for you!
By local410, January 6, 2015 @ 12:26 PM
It’s like the fire department is the teenager and the Boro is the “strict parent”. Remember when u were a teen? Mommy and daddy owned the house but they couldn’t go into your room? Lol these guys need to grow up
By Rat_Smeller, January 6, 2015 @ 12:34 PM
@Local410 - With respect to your idea of consolidating 3 departments into one to save tax money - A.) 1 of the 3 receives no local government tax at all. The only real assistance that they get is in the form of the boro paying the workman’s comp. insurance. Otherwise, all of the equipment they have, their building and grounds, etc. are owned by them and funded with donations and fundraisers. So there is no real tax savings there. B.) The greater Ford City area of Manor Twp. (where the majority of the responses are) is pretty large. It goes out 422 to Kittanning Care and South on 66 to just past Gardas and from the river east out into the country. How would placing one central station in the middle of Ford City Boro decrease the response times for those constituents in the outlying areas (where a majority of the responses occur)? They deserve just as good of service as those living on 4th. Ave in the Boro. (just picking a street at random) C.) I could see your point if the 3 were part of a career department wholly owned by one municipality (cost savings on salaries, insurance, equipment, etc.) However, you have 3 separate entities (which provide very good service to their constituents at the present time). One wholly owned, one that receives a stipend, and one that’s self sufficient. All 3 are volunteer. All 3 stations are located (either by accident or choice) in areas that at least one crewed rig can be on scene to any address in the greater Ford City/Manor Twp./Ford Cliff area relatively quickly. with others responding close behind. All three with trained professionals on their rosters. If its not broken, why are you trying to fix it?
By fc2010, January 6, 2015 @ 3:47 PM
@jd718 The “Who” was previous council in the 70′s when the structure was first built.
By jd718, January 7, 2015 @ 12:33 AM
fc2010… You missed my point, the key word is allowed, they (fire dept.) were allowed, not given ownership. What a previous council did in the past can always be changed by a present day council. Someone said let council build a pole building on the empty lot. However, council can tell the fire dept. to build a pole building on the empty lot, and has the power to enforce it if the majority of council votes say so! The fire dept. does not have the right to tell council what to do with boro property, the very idea is just arrogant on the part of the fire dept.
By jd718, January 7, 2015 @ 12:50 AM
@fc2010, Ask the KP to publish the whole letter or put it in the comment section yourself, people would like to read it for sure.
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 2:00 AM
sbmworker.. Please read savvynewshound Jan. 5, 9:39 post again and try to have an open mind when you read it. Also, did you miss my post about Obstruction of Governmental Operation Jan 5, 8:29am? You seem to have a personal problem with Jerry Miklos, that’s not the real issue here. Council only needs to remember one thing, they are the ones to decide what’s in the best interest of the town. The part about the posters having little minds would be wrong, I’m sure you need to clean that up! I would say most comments here care about what’s right!
By savvynewshound, January 7, 2015 @ 5:52 AM
Correct me if I’m wrong here. The council is just asking to use the room for meetings, not take it off the fire department completely?
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 6:27 AM
JJ.. Yes, I’m into this article, lived there during it’s hay-day, still have friends and a couple relatives there and still own a few things there. I would really like to see the town get back on it’s feet. Also, I have a strong feeling for local government and it’s role in small towns. I don’t have to say what’s right in this case, you said it yourself and I agree..
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 8:15 AM
local410… It’s a Power Play, they (fire dept.) are after some written agreement and your right they should grow up… I hope they don’t get one because of their rudeness and lack of respect of the property rights of the local government-taxpayers…
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 8:25 AM
local410.. As far as I’m concerned they maybe breaking the law. Don’t be surprised if someone turns them into the right people and they are investigated for Obstruction…
By local410, January 7, 2015 @ 9:23 AM
You just said it yourself there bud. I crewed rig. That rarely happens. And yeah half the time it might seemed like a crewed rig, but half of the guys on the trucks are not what I would even remotely come close to calling a crewed rig. That’s the problem, unless you deal with this bs on the Dailey u wouldn’t completely understand and if you do then your part of the problem. Probably less than 10% of the fireman in this area are really even worth anything when the crap hits the fan. Yes all fireman are appreciated and yes we do need the guys that can do traffic control and other things of that nature. But what I’m talking about is a true fireman. That has his training AND KNOWS IT. Has not just put his time in but the hours of continuing to keep it up. I agree it’s hard, with being a volunteer it’s hard to work on that, but that’s what every one of them signed up to do, and you don’t see people beating down the door to join and continue on the process do you? Fireman are a dying breed, so why spread out the talent to where they can not work together. Because like it or not, they don’t. Due to whatever bs politics are involved inter dept. and yes I’m aware of each depts financial intake. And that’s not the point I’m trying to get at. I don’t care if your self sufficient or fully funded. It will all work for the better in the end. As Ford Manor fire dist. One station down in town and ford cliffs as a sub station. All working for one chief, under one set of guidelines and rules. Each municipality splits it’s workmanship comp into a third, and all that fundraising helps one super dept. just really think about that
By local410, January 7, 2015 @ 9:24 AM
And also, the fire companies do not at this time help out on ems calls for whatever reason. I’m sure they could after this would take place on true emergency calls.
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 12:36 PM
JJ.. If this problem was up to me, I would have handed out a dozen copies of the Statute on Governmental Obstruction. Told everyone that council has no plans to take away the space. However, we council Need and Will use this space for meetings or we will be forced to use the Statue of Governmental Obstruction, and ask them not to force our hand. This would have all been done PDQ and out of the public eyes and ears unless they forced the Issue, Case Closed….
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 12:38 PM
JJ.. I forgot and the matter would have been Non-Negotiable!!
By sbmworker, January 7, 2015 @ 8:59 PM
So the FCFD was out on a fire call for approximately 4-5 hours. Who on council or commenting on this post would be out in 0 to -10 temperatures be out that long? Then they are not to have a place to warm up in? Really? You volunteer and do this in the freezing temperature, ice, and awful conditions, and then you can say, they don’t deserve this space. They get paid nothing, volunteer their time and service, and you have the nerve to say they don’t deserve it. Wow, you are really pathetic! Guaranteed you would not do this at all!
By wolfin, January 7, 2015 @ 9:08 PM
Lets get back on track. The head line says council still without meeting place. Just for the record for DECADES monthly council meetings were held in the borough office. It was not until Family Life TV started to broadcast the meetings that they were moved to the back of the library. When Family Life TV stopped broadcasting the meetings the library asked the council to move the meeting from the back to the front of the building for security reasons. The library also stated that if the council would pay one of the library workers to be at the library that council could once again have the meetings in the back of the building. The council last year voted themselves a twenty five dollar refreshment allowance for each meeting so why not give that money to the library and hold the meetings in the back where there is plenty of room for council and the viewing public. As for the work sessions that council holds these sessions can be held in the borough office. This would be better than all the money that would be spent trying to bring the fire hall up to ADA(Americans with Disabilities Act) standards. It would also be more fiscally responsible which is what this council has been telling the citizens for over a year.
By mad-2010, January 7, 2015 @ 9:34 PM
savvynewshound.. You are correct, council only needs to use the space and has no intention to take the hall away from them.
By jorn jensen, January 8, 2015 @ 9:42 AM
Rat_Smeller makes some good points against consolidation. Discussion is a good thing. If a fire company is not receiving tax money, then its existence is none of the taxpayers’ business other than collecting taxes off the asset.
By jorn jensen, January 8, 2015 @ 9:45 AM
I think you’re doing a good job on this topic Mad-2010. Ford City needs to work together to survive and come back. I clearly remember the red solidarity tee shirts at McDonald’s when PPG was out on strike. Clearly remember.
By Rat_Smeller, January 8, 2015 @ 10:09 AM
@local410 - I beg to differ on your assessment of the responders that crew rigs in the Ford City area. I know for a fact that Ford Cliff had 8 members certified by Pro-Board at the Fire Fighter I level in 2013. That’s in addition to those on their roster who were certified at that level or higher and they have more in the pipeline that are actively pursuing certification. I know Manor Twp. and Ford City have members that are certified at that level also, although I am not sure of how many. Also, I’m pretty sure that the guys in Ford Cliff wouldn’t really take to being referred to as a “Sub-Station”. Yeah, its a tiny boro and they assist alot in other municipalities but don’t diminish the work that they do. They raise their own money and train to a high level. Quite frankly Local410, you come off as someone with an axe to grind. Maybe someone that decided to take his bat and ball and went home when he didn’t get his way and now is lashing out. Yep, volunteer firemen are a dying breed. Everyone knows that. However, I don’t think the solution to the problem is ignoring everyone that doesn’t have time to train to the firefighter I level is a viable solution. Why can’t we have members that maybe take the first 2 or 3 modules of the essentials program along with Haz-Mat awareness, possibly operations level and let them operate as fireground support personnel. Fire Depts. don’t get to “draft” from the community. They have to do the best with what they get. So, on your idea of one “Super Fire Dept.” with one main station in Ford City boro and a “Sub-Station” in Ford Cliff - Here are some questions that would need answered - How is it being funded? With what equipment is this new department operating? Are you going to purchase all new equipment for this dept? Are you going to purchase the existing equipment from the exist. depts? How are the membership lines being drawn? How are responses going to be handled? Like I said previously the Greater Ford City area is pretty big. If everyone is responding to the central station and only using the sub-station as needed then what are you going to tell the person out on Montgomery Flats or out by Bowser’s cross-roads when their house is on fire and it takes you an extra 7 minutes to get to their emergency? “Im really sorry your house burned to the foundation, but all of the guys I have sifting through your ashes are certified fireman.” I’m sure that homeowner will find solace in that response.
By sbmworker, January 8, 2015 @ 8:26 PM
I’m done with this conversation! I know what the volunteers do and I appreciate it. If you feel they do not have the knowledge, then I hope you never need them! They all have special training that they give their own time for. You can think what you want! I’m over this. FC Council is ridiculous! Last comment from me. Mad 2010- you are an idiot! I have the education and successful job. I have stated my opinion and am out on this! I know what all they do and you obviously have no clue! Like I said, small minds! I’m out!
By local410, January 8, 2015 @ 11:29 PM
sub station was not an insult, would station 2 sound better? both stations respond, you would have officers at bother stations and ruled under one chief. it would be funded the same way they all are now, a mil tax and fund raising. The equiptment everyone has now would all become property of the new station and keep what they need and sell the rest. everyone responds to stations less than a mile apart from each other anyway. its hard to set training standards on a small department, and a FF1 cert is just a piece of paper i get that. But as in the “super station” u can set training requirements. Which needs to happen. In my opinion, without your essentials, not just 2 or 3, the whole thing, if you dont have it you have no right being on on the fire ground anyway. Think of it this way. Paid fireman train every day, every shift. Have to go through an academy. Workout routines they have to meet and strict diets. And with that just grazing the surface of what is expected of them, they still die, every single day. Either of injury or cardiac arrest from exertion and exhaustion. And then you expect someone with not even the most basic training expected of a volunteer to be aloud out on calls? This has got to change. And yes they were out the other morning, who ever said they were getting that area taken from them? Its to hold a meeting, period, whats the issue?
By fc2010, January 9, 2015 @ 3:30 PM
The real question is… the building needs brought up to ADA code. You are looking at $75-$100,000+ with construction of elevators, bathrooms, and doors plus engineering and other misc. fees. We hear that Ford City is in a financial hardship, but in reality the money should be spent on larger projects, I.e. infrastructure. Furthermore you still have 2 major fines to pay that shouldn’t be thrown to the waist side. Understanding that grants might be used for the ADA construction who says we might get the grants and then what is our Plan B?
By jerry6, January 11, 2015 @ 8:24 PM
I really appreciate all of the volunteer fire fighters. I see all of the work they do to keep these fire houses working. They go out any time they are called upon. If we had to pay for all of this, these little communities couldn’t afford it.
By mad-2010, January 12, 2015 @ 4:20 AM
sbmworker.. Really, you’re not as smart as you think, really….
By mad-2010, January 12, 2015 @ 4:31 AM
fc2010.. In reality you are probably right in your Jan. 9 3:30pm post. My issue was the fire dept. telling council want it can or can’t do with boro property. However your post makes good sense..
By jd718, January 12, 2015 @ 7:19 AM
@sbmworker, Never call a person an idiot that may have a better argument than you do, it makes you look immature and a tad backwards.
By jorn jensen, January 12, 2015 @ 8:14 AM
jerry6, to the public sector, it makes no difference if the fire company is volunteer or paid. If it is paid, the public sector just raises taxes to pay for it, much like the school. Get it?
Now, you, as a taxpayer, maybe should be concerned with the difference between volunteer and paid firefighters, because, if they’re paid, YOU’re going to pay them. One very good reason for strongly supporting volunteer fire fighter fund-raising events. Pay that way and have a good time doing it.
By mad-2010, January 12, 2015 @ 4:03 PM
The Wolfin post Jan. 7 9:08pm would be the solution best suited for both parties (council) & (fire dept.) Thanks for that info, Wolfin….
By Rat_Smeller, January 12, 2015 @ 4:04 PM
Local410 - I have no issues with training requirements, etc. They should exist. They should be mandatory, but there should also be some common sense behind them. The way things are now, could they be better? Yep. Would consolidating all 3 produce such great results that its a no-brainer to pursue it? I don’t know. I know one thing already - You finances don’t work right out of the gate. Manor Twp. has a 2 mil tax, and i believe that Ford City’s 2 3/4 mil. But don’t quote me on that. I am not a Ford City Boro Taxpayer, so I don’t know for sure. So I don’t see how 1 mil with fundraising is going to slice the bread for one superstation and a second. Or are you planning on funding the superstation with tax money and letting the boys up on the hill go on the way they always have, making their own cash, but putting a bunch of stipulations on them to essentially muscle them out of existence. Call me paranoid, but I don’t see your idea as benefitting the whole. I see it as benefitting a few that are bent on empire building.
By jerry6, January 13, 2015 @ 8:50 AM
Jensen: You make no sense. I showed your comment to some people and they asked who is that guy. Of course it makes a difference is you have to pay firefighters or if they are volunteer. I know the Kittanng Twp. fire department has things going on all the time to pay for there department. Jensen, you go in circles with your commnets and it makes no sense.
By jerry6, January 13, 2015 @ 8:53 AM
Jensen: The public sector is the same as the taxpayers. Who makes up the public sector, taxpayers. GET IT This is like Corbett putting a tax on gas and calling it a fee. GET IT
By mad-2010, January 13, 2015 @ 10:42 AM
JJ.. This seems to have gotten muddled a bit. The issue is not if you appreciate the Ford City Fire Dept. or not. JJ, in the Democratic Process, people choose the leaders, and the leaders set Policies, right? Now, the real issue is unelected, unaccountable people (FCFD) making policy and ignoring the authority of those whom Ford City citizens elected! What you end up with is “FCFD Anarchy” which is damaging to the Social Order of Ford City and the Citizens.