EDITORIAL: Property Taxes
Recently, debate over property taxes reached a fever pitch, and it’s no
wonder. According to the Tax Foundation, Pennsylvania has the 10th highest
state and local tax burden in the nation. Four decades of growing
government took their toll, and whether it’s school property, state, or
local taxes, we’ve had enough. That’s why it’s so important that
Harrisburg keeps spending in check and uses the fall session to enact
taxpayer relief. Otherwise, it’s only going to get worse.****
** **
The pension crisis in our state is real, and it’s going to impact our taxes
and our communities fast. Because of public pensions, state and local taxes
are estimated to increase by $1,000 per person, and homeowners will get hit
up for more from their school districts. All this to pay off debt; we’ll
get nothing back in return.****
** **
In Armstrong School District, according to the latest pension fund
projections, contributions to the teachers’ pension system, PSERS, will
increase more than $7.2 million. That means nearly $270 more in school
property taxes for every homeowner, every year.****
** **
We’ve got to tighten the belt in Harrisburg. Spending must be reigned in,
just like we’ve all done at home. Most importantly, our government pensions
have to be reformed before our communities, schools, and taxpayers suffer
more.
Julie Anderson
Indiana, PA 15701
The views expressed are those of the author.
By jorn jensen, October 16, 2013 @ 6:42 AM
We have to tighten the belt in Armstrong County and in the ASD, also. ASD directors are now talking sports facilities as we suffer academically. More spending of tax dollars, not less.
The answer is HB76 and SB76 - eliminate property taxes and fund those needs with increased sales and income taxes. This will put the taxpayer in charge of their taxes and will eliminate local tax collectors. Trim more fat from the government system. Think about that as you vote for your favorite tax collector in the upcoming elections.
By Flamingo1, October 16, 2013 @ 9:19 AM
An interesting editorial without a conclusion or a solution. We may be in the top ten in terms of tax burden, but we get better schools and government services. Want to try the bottom ten? You get awful schools and potholed roads.
Is the writer suggesting we cut pensions to retiree? We don’t know.
We could do like all other states and tax coal and gas extraction.
By Flamingo1, October 17, 2013 @ 3:28 PM
@Jorn
Interesting that you keep beating this dead horse. The IFO of the Commonwealth determined that sales tax and income tax increases will not raise enough revenue: hence the taxes will be higher than initially projected. Most business leaders are opposed to raising of sales and income taxes and that is why the Chamber of Commerce opposes the bills. And finally, this would put all the tax money in Harrisburg and we would lose local control. Want to see how we do competing with Philadelphia or Pittsburgh to get tax money to run our schools? Didn’t think so.
By unclbuck, October 18, 2013 @ 11:22 PM
I AGREE WITH JORN. JEFF PYLE USED TO CAMPAIGN FOR TAX REFORM.
By sickofpayingforit, October 20, 2013 @ 11:28 PM
@Flamingo- No, you don’t cut current pensions. You simply grandfather people into the current system, and amend the retirement package to a more sustainable, affordable benefit, going forward. This has been done by MANY private sector companies, to stay in business. This is nothing new, I didn’t invent this idea, and it is the way things are done in 2013. Granted, this is a tax fed “corporation”, so they can simply keep appealing to the state to circumvent the laws, and keep the taxes high to keep spending it like it is Monopoly money……..
By jorn jensen, October 21, 2013 @ 7:55 AM
sickofpayingforit - You’re trying to explain something to a liberal? Liberals will like you as long as you think like them. Conservatives just want you to THINK, period.
Flamingo - You believe local tax-gathering people are not doing a fine-enough job of gathering better than Harrisburg can? Harrisburg’s tax-gathering would be a percentage of actual monetary transactions, not what some government-appointed, and not necessarily qualified, tax assessor feels that a piece of property is worth.
Not a dead horse - I’ll keep up the fight for tax fairness regardless of what you tax-loving liberals believe.
By Flamingo1, October 21, 2013 @ 9:51 AM
@sick
So when you talk tax reform you really mean reducing wages for public employees. And when you talk pension reform you mean reducing pensions. And when national politicians talk entitlement reform they mean cutting Social Security. That is very sad. It means the middle class will take a beating.
By Flamingo1, October 22, 2013 @ 2:57 AM
@Jorn
More name calling as usual. And as usual you ignore the argument for your rants. Your plan is going no where as it has no merit.
By steve, October 22, 2013 @ 10:54 AM
It’s pretty humorous that Jorn is fighting for “tax fairness”. I thought he was Mr. Trickle Down?
So much for Jorn “thinking” Flamingo. He’s a lost cause. I wouldn’t waste much time on him.
By jester, October 22, 2013 @ 12:34 PM
Privatize !
By Flamingo1, October 22, 2013 @ 5:51 PM
@Jorn
So the specific questions you will probably ignore
1-Your plan does not raise enough money, so where are you getting the money to fund schools?
2-The business community doesn’t like the bill, how will you overcome that?
3-Your plan puts all the money in Harrisburg and we lose local control. How is that a good think?
Okay name call and rant or admit you are on the losing end of an argument.
By sickofpayingforit, October 22, 2013 @ 7:53 PM
@ Flamingo- Can you justify your position more clearly? You think that taxing the heck out of the homeowners, to pay for benefit packages for district employees is helping the middle class? LOL. How about helping the WHOLE middle class and make public sector pay/benefits comparable to private sector, present-day, benefits? Why is that thought seen as bashing anyone? It is realistic economics.
I don’t believe national politicians mean cutting social security as entitlement savings. I believe they are talking about career welfare recipients and entitlement abusers who fanangle their situations to keep collecting the freebies. Putting term limits/caps on welfare, food stamps, etc. is how I see entitlement reform. It is funny that there are jobs listed every day in our local media and yet we have people not working collecting my tax money. I may not be as smart as most of you people on here, but that doesn’t make much sense to me………
By sean spring, October 23, 2013 @ 7:28 AM
since when did Social Security become an “entitlement’? Money was taken out of my paycheck for Social Security.
By steve, October 23, 2013 @ 8:25 AM
sickofpayingforit- In theory weeding out lifetime welfare recipients seems like the perfect idea, except you then get into “how do you police it”.
Florida spent more money on drug testing welfare recipients than they saved by denying benefits to those who failed. You seem to be no nonsense about the bottom line; and there is nothing wrong with that… but you have to look into all aspects rather than just saying taking something away will automatically work.
By steve, October 23, 2013 @ 8:27 AM
Oh, and Jorn’s “conservatives want you to think” comment was stolen from facebook. Yes; he told you conservatives want you to think and copied it hahaha
By scott_starr, October 23, 2013 @ 12:46 PM
Tax fairness is when your neighbor pays more in taxes than you do.
Over taxation is when you pay more than your neighbor.
Many believe that the “other person” is not paying their “fair share” (whatever that is).
By taxpoor, October 23, 2013 @ 3:42 PM
@Flamingo- Why not sales tax? Why not let the teachers union fight the state for their raises and benefits. Instead of electing members of the union to the board to get their contracts passed. You show your true liberal colors with every other statement. Why don’t you want your government in charge of your local school tax? And buy the way coal and gas extraction is taxed and our roads are all pot holes. You even live in Armstrong county? One thing for sure. Your awfully concerned about your state pension. Maybe you should try to make your living in the private sector. Maybe your eyes will open up and you could see how you and your liberal buddy’s are destroying this nation.
By Flamingo1, October 23, 2013 @ 8:14 PM
@sick
I want to respond to you in the most respectful way. I do think national politicians in the Republican party want to cut Social Security. I can name the actual senators and reps who want to disband SS.
I have looked up the stats on welfare and food stamps. There are 12 million people on welfare. The cost is 131 billion a year. So we have 4 percent of the population on welfare. This does not include food stamps or unemployment. I do agree that some are cheats and free loaders. About 20 percent on AFDC have been on the program for more than 5 years. But about 60 percent less than a year. But note that getting a job to be more cost effective would take a 16 dollar an hour job to be even.
There are the disabled, there are the autistic who can never hold a job, there are the people who have no marketable skills.
I know of many widows in their 70’s who get less than a $1000 a month in SS and are trying to get by. Food stamps help them.
I know of workers at Walmart and restaurants who do not make enough to get by and use food stamps to make it. So in effect Walmart and McDonalds use the welfare system to make the work force work.
Back in 1889 there was the infamous Homestead Strike. The issue was that Carnegie cut wages from 3 dollars a day to 2 dollars a day—for a 12 hour day. In that year Carnegie and Frick made 422 million dollars. They employed about 40 thousand workers. Do the math.
So in sum, the poor are with us. Some are scammers. Some are definitely in need. I think we can do without the scammers, but in my experience most are not.
By scott_starr, October 23, 2013 @ 9:52 PM
@Flamingo:
Yes, read your statement…. THEY EMPLOYED 40,000 WORKERS…
Perhaps that’s 40,000 people who would not have had jobs?????
If those 40,000 could have made $4 a day they would have left the steel mills in a minute.
So what is your point?
By scott_starr, October 23, 2013 @ 10:20 PM
@Flamingo:
Here is something for you as well.
Privatizing Social Security:
If a person were allowed/forced to pay 6.25% and employer 6.25% AND this were invested at an average return of 5% (fair assessment, except recently) from age 25 to retirement at 65.
Assumptions: $30,000 salary from age 25 to 65 ( no raises)
total account balance $524,000
Total monthly benefit $2183 ( for 20 years)
(this does not count 5% return on the balance eachyear thereafter, which first year would be year $24.9K… actually it will last much longer)
so you withdraw $26K and get about $24K in interest net account draw down is $2K.
Under Social Security
Your monthly benefit $1013 ( retirement at 66)
Using same age and salary.
( from SS Website)
Which do you prefer to have monthly?
Note:Historical CD rates for 3-year CDs have been 5.093%, 4-year CDs have been 5.207%, and 5-year CDs have been 5.405%.
Note: #2
3 year before retirement, one would have to put in “cash” the amount they want to withdraw the year of retirement,and ladder the remaining amount of money in CD’s so they come payable each year for payment.
Note#3: Pass a law allowing Seniors to withdraw money in case of emergency with no early withdrawal penalty.
Note#4 Low interest rates penalize savers and reward spenders… the current environment is/will kill pension funds which need about 8-10% to pay for obligations. That’s why the stock market is high. Looking for returns, and WHEN it falls the pension funds will be even further behind.
By Flamingo1, October 24, 2013 @ 1:07 AM
@taxpoor
Just for you information. I do not have a state pension. We do not have an extraction tax. And yes I do live in Armstrong County, and I probably pay more in property taxes than you do. And I do make my living in the private sector.
By jorn jensen, October 24, 2013 @ 10:22 AM
I decided to sit this one out for a while and see what else would ‘shake out’.
Flamingo’s October 23rd post is well-written and does make a good case for those whom the welfare system is intended. But, of course, Flamino has to throw in the republicans cutting SS and such.
steve believes that it is too costly to enforce rules, so just let the rules-breakers win. Wow.
taxpoor’s post provides the most insight of these recent posts. But, that post is ‘too deep’ for some on this site. You can’t touch sacred union-fought-and-won things.
Scott’s post offers nothing of value. Tax fairness is a percentage of something real - such as income, purchases - monetary transactions. Assessed taxes are are opinion-based and highly subject to ‘un-fairness’. If it takes sales taxes going to 8% or 10% and incomes taxes going to 5% to eliminate property taxes, then I’m fine with that because each of us will pay an equal percentage of our income and purchases values to fund government-provided ‘stuff’.
By sid87, October 24, 2013 @ 7:11 PM
Can someone please answer these questions for me, do our school district employees pay into their pension, or is it 100% funded by the taxpayers? If they do help to fund the pension system, what percentage? How does this compare with the private sector?
By cartman, October 24, 2013 @ 9:26 PM
Here is an idea. If there is a job opening anywhere, make an able bodied welfare recipient take it. If it doesn’t pay enough to live on, make up the difference. At least they would have to get up and go to work.
By Flamingo1, October 25, 2013 @ 12:47 AM
@Jorn
Well Senators Paul, Lee, Cruz and Grassley have proposed cutting SS by 25%. This is in the last 60 days. They al
@Cartman-not a bad idea, but as you say yourself—able bodied welfare recipient. Most are not.
@Sid: Teachers put in dollar for dollar what the district puts in. The money is then invested to get a result. The state gave the districts a holiday for several years and that is why the pension fund is underfunded and it is also why there is a pension crisis. A promise is a promise. One place I worked there was a two dollar match from employer into my pension plan up to 10% of my salary. Pretty good arrangement. Surprisingly, lots of people wanted to work there. Good wages, good benefits, and a VERY profitable place. Wonder why that was?
By Flamingo1, October 25, 2013 @ 12:53 AM
@Scott
But SS is more than a retirement fund. It is also aid for dependent survivors, and a disability insurance. And that is where your argument falls apart. I have seen this before and actually asked a congressman about this. I got a very detailed response from his office that showed the problem with your approach. Also if you look at current returns on investments in the last 12 years they don’t do that well.
By steve, October 25, 2013 @ 8:58 AM
Jorn- You should sit this one out. You’re in over your head already.
1. Rule breakers? What rule are you talking about? Nobody is doing anything illegal by receiving assistance.
2. It was proven more costly in that case. You’d rather spend more tax dollars simply to take something away from someone? I thought the point was to SAVE taxpayers money. If it’s more costly to drug test, what’s the point?
The same thing goes for trying to find out who truly “needs” assistance. In the end you may find out you spent a ton more taxpayer money to only find out that there are more people in need than you initially thought. You may also come to the realization that everyone has their own opinions on what “need” is.
It’s interesting that you have no worries about massive corporations paying low wages with no benefits and taxpayers having to pick up the tab.
Each Wal-Mart costs communities $400k+ in tax money per year while they rake in billions in profits.
By jorn jensen, October 25, 2013 @ 9:38 AM
Flamingo - Are you living in a bubble? You really believe that most on welfare are not able-bodied? Where have you been the last 30 or so years? Yikes!
Scott’s argument still holds, Flamingo, even with aid for dependent surviviors and disablity insurance because the money ‘would have been put in there’ all along by the person working and paying into the savings - it is just that now, the saver isn’t getting the benefit of the savings, but the survivor is. Scott is correct - privatize it and make it work. Where the government is involved, it won’t work - just raise the debt ceiling and lower our world credit rating. Same with healthcare - keep the government out of it and it will work. Just ask UPS and FedEX about the USPS.
By scott_starr, October 25, 2013 @ 11:08 AM
@flamingo:
I had penned a much longer response, but lost it.
First:
1. you’ve not shown where my argument “falls apart”.
2. Asking a congressman if a private plan would work is like asking a fox if s/he would like to stop watching the hen house. The congressman would loose his ability to buy votes by increasing benefits.
3. today’s rates are a direct consequence of the government overspending. Rates are kept artificially low due to the Federal Reserve “buying” 85 billion monthly of US Government debt. This is supposed to stimulate the economy but…. hasn’t worked.
The housing “bubble” was due to the Federal Reserve keeping interest rates low, as well as federal government meddling in Bank lending procedures to “stimulate lending”.
So asking someone who was involved in causing the problem, makes me suspect at his answers.
By scott_starr, October 25, 2013 @ 11:27 AM
@Flamingo:
1. March 2013- Senate Unanimously votes to NOT cut social security benefits.
2. White House wants to change formula resulting in “cuts” to SS Payouts.
I’ve looked and can not find any articles that say Cruz wants to cut SS by 25%. ( even liberal sites).
@Flaming:
Please also explain that Teachers get a “defined benefit” which means that while they may put up to 7.5% of their salary and the district also contributes, there is a specific rate of return which must be met in order for the Pension system to meet its obligation.
If the rate of return falls short, Teachers do not have a reduction in their payout at retirement.
By scott_starr, October 25, 2013 @ 11:33 AM
@jorn:
Hahahahaha. Sorry but your “plan” offers nothing of value, you are still putting the power in the hands of politicians to tax.
so, we have a VAT that starts out at say 5%, then goes to 6%, then 7%… then Jorn is crying about how much you pay in VAT… then you go off looking for the next Windmill to tilt.
At least with my retirement plan:
1. Politicans can not use OPM (other people’s money).
2. You have some control and an actual cash asset.
Besides, you don’t know the difference between Propery taxes and Retirement.
By taxpoor, October 25, 2013 @ 12:16 PM
SS Is not a retirement fund at all.. No one in this county could eat pay utilities and pay their property taxes on that little bit of money. Those that are may survive but their not living. SS is a failure for one simple reason. More taking out than putting in. How many people do you know that are on SSI who have never worked? As far as welfare goes. Give them food not food stamps. Give them clothes not a credit/ debit card. And if they cant make it or still have no ambition to help themselves TO BAD.I and millions like me made our own way and raised our families with out help. We shouldn’t have to raise some bums family also. The ill and handicapped people I have no problem with. They are a small % of who’s taking SSI & welfare. But many have make believe problems that are bleeding the system. Taxes simple 10% sales tax pays for it all. Flamingo you think coal and gas producers don’t get taxed enough wait till the libs shut it down. Taxing the industries who pay people good wages out of business is not going to ever work no matter how you libs try. They taxed the coal industry even more this year. Obama gave billions more this year to his wind energy buddies most of witch failed AGAIN filed chapter 11 took the money and ran. The whole system needs changed and it all starts buy down sizing government stopping all these intitlement programs.
By worthingtonman, October 25, 2013 @ 1:34 PM
@Flamingo1
You want us to believe most welfare recipients are not able bodied? Give us a break! Those who feel they are not able bodies already have themselves on SSI. Most welfare takers are just that. Takers.
By mad-2010, October 25, 2013 @ 4:44 PM
1.72 million families received direct assistance during an average month in 2012 through Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. That’s about half the 3.94 million families who received TANF in 1997.
Nearly four decades after President Reagan derided welfare far fewer families are receiving cash and voucher assistance, and a larger share of less educated people are working.
I’d have to go along with Flamingo with this argument 100% including his stance on SS.
By cartman, October 25, 2013 @ 7:16 PM
Flamingo,
There are separate programs for the disabled, and they should be continued. I submit that the majority of welfare recipients are just lazy, and should be made to work, just like the people who are supporting them.
By mad-2010, October 26, 2013 @ 3:52 PM
@Steve.. Just read your post.. Where in your post do you suggest that it’s too costly to enforce Assistance rules? Maybe old JJ needs a new pair of glasses if that is how he read your post. WOW!
By sickofpayingforit, October 29, 2013 @ 12:34 AM
@ Scott Star-
So, I am actually asking you this, if the market falls short and does not pump up the ASD employees retirement fund, the tax payers, who also have just suffered the same losses in their personal accounts, are expected to make up the difference for ASD employees????
Also, to add what Flamingo has stated to what you are saying, ASD employees can contribute up to 7.5 percent, and the tax payers will match whatever they contribute, up to 7.5%??? This is also a question I am asking.
I appreciate any answer to these questions. I simply do not have time to do any research for myself lately…..
By sickofpayingforit, October 29, 2013 @ 12:47 AM
@ Scott Star-
I thought the housing crisis was caused by people making fifty grand a year buying two or three hundred thousand dollar houses? I don’t blame the banks or the government. I blame the people who signed the dotted lines for those loans. I paid a little over sixty grand for my house, with the thought process that if things went bad, I could make the mortgage payment on a much lower wage than I currently am earning. Yeah, I have to occasionally listen to a comment like “I probably pay double what you do in property tax”, or watch this person or that person celebrate the fact they have a magazine-cover quality house, but at the end of the day, my forced donation for that ASD admin parking lot will be much smaller than theirs!!! I am also good with that!!!
In today’s society, personal accountability is either understated or completely absolved by simply blaming the government, and much to all of our detriment.
By Flamingo1, October 29, 2013 @ 7:50 AM
@Worthingtonman
And you know this because you sat around the barber shop and got your information. Most welfare recipients are in dire straights. I have volunteered at food banks and soup kitchens and these are not able bodied souls. Spend some time with the Salvation Army or at the food bank and get a different picture.
By worthingtonman, October 29, 2013 @ 9:49 AM
@mad
In states such as Pennsylvania, the new pre-approval work search requirement has greatly reduced the number of applicants receiving TANF. As many as 80% of new applicants were turned away because they had not completed the job search required before receiving TANF. That denial number is up from an average of 50-60 prior to the rules implementation in Pennsylvania during the summer of 2012. So what does that mean? It simply means those individuals requesting TANF simply are not receiving the welfare money. They are still getting free governement housing and food stamps and not working. As I stated, those unable to work are most likely receiving SSI. Most of the rest are lazy and unwilling to work. Plus your figure did not represent the children receiving TANF. That figure is over 4 million. That money is going to whom?
By scott_starr, October 29, 2013 @ 10:15 AM
@sickofpaying:
1. yes, taxpayers make up for shortfalls in ALL public pensions.
2. on the 7.5%- that is my understanding.
3. Housing-
Banks have criteria for lending. The FED’s pressured the banks to lower those criteria. In order to expand the “affordability” of homes interest rates were also kept at historical lows ( before the current manipulated rates).
Yes, banks had low-doc and no doc loans, as programs to increase affordability as requested by the FED’s.. If those low and no doc loans worked the market would have offered them long ago.
By mad-2010, October 30, 2013 @ 6:27 AM
Wman.. I still agree with Flamingo, there are a heck of lot of working poor in this Country. As Flamingo pointed out in his Oct. 23 post about the Homestead Strike, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer! Also, a member in this household volunteers at a local food bank, and Flamingo is right they are in dire straights. One more thing, a roof over your head and food stamps is hardly the good life!
By worthingtonman, October 30, 2013 @ 8:28 AM
@Flamingo1
You really got you liberal bleeding heart going in full motion don’t you. You forget that we live in this area? I KNOW ALOT of these takers. You see they are the ones selling their food stamps at half cost for cigarrettes and beer money. Then visiting the local food bank to stock the cupboards. I don’t hear about this at the barber shop. I see it first hand. I see them on facebook peddling their food stamps. Waiting on their access card to get loaded up so they can head on off to the Hot Spot for a night of beer and drugs. I am sure there are some needy people, but the majority on the take could be working. They choose not to. The war on Poverty in this country was a complete failure. All that it did was make it worse. Create a culture where you do not have to work. Generation after generation are on the take. Thankfully we have a administration in Harrisburg that is trying to do something about it. The pre-approval work search requirement is pushing these people into work. Teaching them that you can work to support yourself. The 80% rejection rate shows that. I know a mother /son team in Worthington that work the system like there is no tomorrow. Both able bodied individuals sucking off the government teet. They never miss a day at the local food bank and neither is doing anything about gaining gameful employment. I have a family member who does her Christmas shopping at the Salvation Army and local Church charities. Mittens, gloves and hats that were designed to help the needy with cold weather now become Christmas gifts for those who are not needy. This system is abused horrifically and with your blinders on, you can not see it. The takers know how to work the system, and they know how to work the bleeding hearts.
By jorn jensen, October 31, 2013 @ 8:49 AM
Excellent post worthingtonman. The ‘many’ at the food banks and soup kitchens are just a small percentage of the total. Keep producing worthingtonman, the takers need you. The thing is, the tide has turned in this country - the takers now outnumber the producers at the polls.
What are your thoughts on Julie Anderson’s editorial above? Flamingo states, ” An interesting editorial without a conclusion or a solution.” I see, in Julie’s last paragraph, a conclusion and solution. Maybe her last paragraph didn’t show up on everyone’s computer?
Flamingo - Obviously, one does not remove or lower pensions for existing pensioners. Come on, even you know that answer to your own question. It is a preparation step for future pensions - negotiate them lower, now, for the future Can’t believe that I had to ‘splain that to you.
Julie presents some grim facts for our area. Result? People bury their heads in the sand.
By Flamingo1, October 31, 2013 @ 6:32 PM
@worthingtonman
I note how conservatives can never state an opinion without name calling.
I feel kind of sorry for you. There is no compassion in your life or empathy for the less fortunate.
I don’t know of people selling food stamps on facebook and then going to a drug and beer party. If you know of this you should report it. Sounds like some in your family are abusing the system. Why not report the violations?
In my volunteer work I see a much different picture. I guess I see the poor and have compassion, as opposed to those who see the poor and feel superior and judgmental.
As for welfare—you live in Worthington. Ever notice all the farms around you that are heavily subsidized by the government? Getting paid for not planting the ground is certainly welfare. Price supports for certain commodities are certainly welfare. And then there are the businesses in the KOZ’s that get tax free sweetheart deals, that certainly is welfare by another name.
And if you have a family member who shops at the Salvation Army for Christmas, maybe you should do something like confront the behavior and put a stop to this bad behavior.
By worthingtonman, October 31, 2013 @ 7:43 PM
@Flamingo1
Truly you are not that blind. Do you watch the news? Did you see the stories of people selling their food stamps on Craigslist? Do not feel sorry for me. I have compassion in my heart for the truly needy. And empathy for the truly less fortunate. Life is what you make of it. I did not come from a wealthy family and am not myself wealthy. But everyone in my house works. As was stated and as I continue to say…Most on TANF are lazy and unproductive. That is what the post was about. People that read this blog know the deal. Take your blinders off. For if you are dishing out your hard earned money to just anybody, you are probably being taken for a ride. Listen, being lazy and unproductive can actually lead you to a comfortable life. There is TANF if you can get it. Free housing, free food, free phone and now free healthcare. Actually becoming not so bad a deal.
By steve, November 1, 2013 @ 7:32 AM
Wow, quite the differing viewpoints here.
Scott- You’re telling me the government is to blame for the mortgage crisis and not the bankers or folks who took on mortgages they couldn’t pay for? Come on.
Worthingtonman- It’s very odd that Flamingo doesn’t know anyone selling foodstamps on Craigslist or Facebook and I’ve never come across this either, yet somehow you (and other conservatives) do? Maybe it’s your conservative associates taking advantage of the system. The top welfare states in the country are red. Very hypocrytical.
By jorn jensen, November 1, 2013 @ 9:13 AM
Flamingo - Really, now you’e picking on Worthington farmers as being on welfare. What if any post readers actually believe what you write? Like Obama, you’re ‘misleading’ (lie to) people. The fact is, Worthington farmers work more fields than they own. Fact. Our place normally has corn on it - this year, alfalfa. Heardenoughalready’s fields are in corn this year. The farmers don’t own any of that ground - they grow crops on it. Plus, their own land is fully-cropped. Stop out and visit sometime - the farmers are also good neighbors. You’re welcome to get a picture of my wealth spreader.
You’re trying to lump Worthington farmers in with the big grain farms out west that get that sort of welfare (paid not to plant)and that is a government problem, not a farmer problem. Solve the government problem.
Farmers put food on your table - show a little appreciation.
On your welfare debate with worthingtonman (this article is about property taxes), 11 states now have more people on welfare than they do employed. They are California, New Mexico, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Illinois (figures), Kentucky, Ohio, New York, Hawaii and Maine. As I recall, Obama has at least lived in Hawaii and Illinois.
So, worthingtonman is correct and you are wrong on welfare. And, the problem is increasing, not decreasing.
Were you, steve and mad (seems to be the only lib buds left on here) three of the successful first day six to sign up for Obamacare? When will you people catch onto this joke played on the American people?
By Flamingo1, November 1, 2013 @ 12:08 PM
@Worthington
Well I guess I am that blind. The report of Craigslist sale of food stamps on Fox news has not been substantiated. But even if-a single case or a few.Not a big deal.
I know those who work at Walmart and make 9 bucks an hour and do get food stamps. They are working but at18k per year need the food stamps to eat. In fact 80 % of Walmart workers are on food stamps, as advised by the company.
By mad-2010, November 1, 2013 @ 12:28 PM
Producing and Unproductive must be the latest right wing Jargon! Unproductive would be the GOP government shutdown to the tune of 24 Billion.. Conservatives are a funny lot!!
By jerry6, November 4, 2013 @ 8:23 AM
I saw Rep. Murphy on tv saying the Affortable Care Act should be shut down because of all the problems. I saw a clip back in 2006 of when Bush started the part B of Medicare and all of the uproar over this. They showed Murphy saying you have to give it a chance. He said all programs get off to a rough start. This program crashed twice when getting started. In a year, you won’t hear anything about the Affortable care act after all of the people who need insurance get it. The republicans are afraid it will be successful. Hannity on Fox, had three couples on his show running down this new insurance. I saw a man who knows two of these couples and he called and talked to them and found out a lot of what they said wasn’t true. From what I hear, Hannity is one of the biggest liars on Fox. He will never admit being wrong when he is proved to not be telling the truth. Watch all three of the cable shows once in a while and see who is telling the truth. I think we should do away with rep. and dems. and just be Americans voting for the best person and all work together to help everyone.
By worthingtonman, November 4, 2013 @ 9:20 PM
My wife and I have worked very hard for everything we have in life. Why is it so wrong to expect everyone else who is able bodied to do the same?
By Flamingo1, November 4, 2013 @ 10:22 PM
@worthington —Do you remember when PPG and Eljer closed? Were you standing at the gate telling the able bodied to get a job?There are economic downturns. People should work if able and not expect a handout. But sometimes there are no jobs, and sometimes there are people who just are not employable.
By worthingtonman, November 5, 2013 @ 7:34 AM
@Mad-2010
Unproductive has always been a nice way of saying Welfare bums.The lazy who would rather lay in bed all day and do nothing. Of COURSE none of you Libs on this board know any of these people.
@Flamingo1
You and I both know we are talking apples and oranges here. I personally did not anyone involved with the PPG debacle, but I know many affected by the Eljer shutdown. From management to laborers because i used to work with these people. Most that i know went to school to better themselves. they were offered generous help from the state and federal governments to make this happen. I am a firm believer that this is the kind of help we should offer.
@jerry6
The Dems are getting what they wanted with the Affordable Care Act. In a interview with Geroge Stepanaopolis on Sunday , Rand paul turned the cards on him quick. After george touted the high number of kentucky residents who had signed up for the Affordable Care act there, attempting to make it look like a success, rand paul informed him that up to 90% of the new enrollees were fore Medicaid. The free version. If this trend continues, those in the are worried about their property taxes can forget those, because their federal taxes along with the nations debt will sky rocket. I know a self employed couple from the rural valley area who had their own insurance they had purchased. This insurance cost them 530 per month for the couple. They received a letter from the company telling them that their policy did not meet the levels of coverage dictated by the Affordable care Act and that they would have to go onto the healthcar.gov site and sign up. Once she attempted to sign up, she found the cost of their insurance exceeded 1000 per month and had a substantially higher deductible. They could not afford it so she hit the opt out button and was informed of the penalties that would be placed against her. She is now panicking not knowing what to do. These I am sure are the unexpected consequences of the act, but it paints a broad picture of what is happening to self employed and self insured people all over the country. Obama is being exposed for the liar and misinformer that he is. His most transparent administration is a joke. run by a group of inept liberals who are setting him up for a crash and burn.
By yousaidwhat, November 5, 2013 @ 7:42 AM
Flamingo1, I like you last comment. When these plants closed and people were looking for work, they couldn’t find many jobs with the same rate of pay. They Were making a decent living at these plants. For some people, they needed to work two jobs to make up the difference. So…Why can’t the ASD employees work during the summer to make up the difference. After all, they are able bodied. (I don’t have a problem with teachers and am only questioning the comments that I have seen here).
By mad-2010, November 5, 2013 @ 10:54 AM
The biggest joke of the year in America was the GOP government shutdown to the tune of 24 Billion!
All the Cons and Teapublicans,I’d like to Thank You All for That Taxpayer Waste, and all they could say about that Waste of Taxpayer Dollars was “We fought the good fight.
On this Blog you have Cons up in arms about the working poor in Pa. and the rest of America getting food stamps! Like I said before, “Conservatives are a funny lot.”
By mad-2010, November 5, 2013 @ 11:07 AM
I agree with you Jerry6, Americans should all be doing what is best for all Americans.
By mad-2010, November 5, 2013 @ 12:06 PM
“Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to be free.”
Interesting Words….
By mad-2010, November 5, 2013 @ 3:42 PM
As I recall, the fact that President Obama lived in Illinois and Hawaii has nothing to do with the amount of people on welfare in those states, unless you happen to be a person with a certain type of issue, figures! Conservatives are a strange lot! LOL
By worthingtonman, November 6, 2013 @ 12:12 PM
@mad2010
You should have them add, and we will give you free housing and food and telephones and cars and utilities and money for cigarrettes and beer and force others to pay for healthcare so we can give it you for free!
By worthingtonman, November 6, 2013 @ 12:16 PM
@mad2010
I have not seen one comment on this blog from any conservative attacking the working poor for foodstamps. Like I am saying now, most liberals are liars and don’t have a problem straight up making crap up to say to try put a band aid on their own guilty bleeding hearts. You get that from your lying leader. Heck he is even lying now about lying. Glad to see his approval rating below 40% Exactly where it belongs.
By worthingtonman, November 6, 2013 @ 12:19 PM
@yousaidwhat
If I am not mistaken, the teachers get a choice of receiving their salary over the school year or can stretch it over the whole year. Alot of these teachers do work in the summer time.
By steve, November 6, 2013 @ 3:23 PM
Worthingtonman- You may want to find a better source for information than Rand Paul. He’s just been caught pulling a Jensen (aka plagiarism). He not only copies his speeches from movies, he also used other peoples material throughout his book!
Your story about the Rural Valley couple may be true… but this only exposes junk insurance policies. There are quite a few people paying $530 a month for policies that don’t cover many common things legitimate insurances typically DO cover. If your policy doesn’t cover hospital visits, prescriptions, ER visits, or many other common items, no wonder they don’t meet the minimum amount of coverage.
Mad- Don’t mention the government shutdown here… the conservatives think that was money well spent (or should I say lost). Think of what could have been funded with that.
By scott_starr, November 6, 2013 @ 9:15 PM
Well Mad, explain to everyone why Whorehouse Harry Reid would not bring to a vote the Republican bill to continue funding the government ????
Well, lets not let facts get in the way.
I thank the Democraps for the waste in government. They never met a program they didn’t like ( except funding the government).
By mad-2010, November 6, 2013 @ 11:32 PM
In 17 states 48% of the nation 50 million public school students are low-income, However a decade earlier only 4 states had low-income students as a majority, that’s quadruple since 2001,71% in Mississippi alone! ( hope you read this right,wman. Since you wonder where the money goes for these children.)
The number of homeless, homeless! (as in no roof over your head, wman) Homeless children in public schools rose 10% in 2011-2012 that’s 1.1 million a 72% increase since 2006-2007! And the Cons in power of the Congress blow 24 billion Dollars on a dumb government shutdown! (Are you still with me here, Wman)
I’am willing to bet that more than 40% of the students in ASD get Free lunches in school because they are low-income, any takers on this bet? (How about you, Wman. Care to make a bet?)
One last thing, the last guy the Cons had in the White House told a big fat lie about WMD’s that cost countless American lives, does that make you feel any better, wman? Like I said some Conservatives are part of a strange lot!
By cartman, November 7, 2013 @ 8:32 AM
If, as some of the libs have implied, there are no jobs, why do we see so many Now Hiring signs around? The able-bodied should be forced to fill these jobs, and their paychecks should be deducted from their welfare. As Worthingtonman stated, this is not about food stamps. It is about lazy bums.
By mad-2010, November 7, 2013 @ 8:38 AM
It’s a deal Starr.. You thank the Dems for government waste and I will thank the Cons for waste of American life in WMD-less Wars!
By worthingtonman, November 7, 2013 @ 9:48 AM
@Mado2010
So according to you, this Liberalism thing is not working out for Americans. all that hope and change is gone! I believe life is what you make it. Work hard for it and it can be yours. Oh and by the way Hillary fell for the bad WMD Info also and was all for attacking Iraq. Does this mean we can on you not support that liar also? I bet the dead Ambassador from Benghazi would rethink his support.
By jorn jensen, November 7, 2013 @ 10:07 AM
jerry6 - ‘splain to me how Obamacare is good for you and me, but that Reid, Pelosi, Boehner, McCain, Joe Shotgun Biden and Obama don’t have to sign up for it. If it is good enough for us, it ought to be good enough for them. No? Perhaps a staunch democrat, or a liberal, can justify an answer of ‘no’.
And, how can adding 20 million people to ‘coverage’, with no more payers and no more doctors, work? Must be that the ‘payers’ will have to pay more and wait longer to see a doctor.
No? Yes?
Simple questions jerry6 - help me out here.
By taxpoor, November 7, 2013 @ 11:29 AM
@ Mad Do you believe the crap your writing on here? Why don’t you do some homework and look up who’s voting for what. Who’s introducing what to be voted on. Not main stream media not fox news do some real homework. Then tell me what politicians are wasting our tax dollars on stupid laws and costing American jobs. I bet you will find its more democrats than republicans.(Care to take that bet?)You want to talk about a strange lot Mr. Liberal. You back a president that cant even come up with a birth certificate in six years one of only two requirements to hold his job. He alone is on his way to ruining the best healthcare system in the world. And has done nothing but lie about every part of it from the start. From what it was going to cost us to who is going to be covered by it. But still you liberals suck up his and his parties lies like a giant vacuum. And we are a strange lot? No we conservatives can think for ourselves support ourselves and don’t need government in our lives to tell us what to eat what to drink where to work and what medical treatment we can or can not have. So what is next ? Ah Yea we are warming the earth with fossil fuels no proof other than what they tell the media to tell you.(Hear that sucking sound)So if you believe all this crap the democrats are feeding you. You are not a liberal. You my friend are a SUCKER.
By mad-2010, November 7, 2013 @ 2:18 PM
@ Steve.. Didn’t the teaparty allies inside Congress and the CONS in the House rank & file force Boehner to include defunding provisions (for the health care act) on legislation required to avoid the government shutdown?
By worthingtonman, November 7, 2013 @ 2:25 PM
@Steve
You listen too much to the dirty liar at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. You have no clue what their insurance covered…Does a woman with her tubes tied or her husband need maternity insurance? We were promised we could keep our insurance if we liked it. Not maybe… or if it’s good enough. Not reading the law has now got a lot of blue dogs in trouble back home. Remember the old baby killer Pelosi with her we got to pass it before we can see what is in it crap. Now they see whats in it. But I am glad. I hope the blue dogs take a beating in the elections back home. I guess we will see the numbers next week on what percentage of folks are paying for the new Affordable Csre Act and what percent are leaching .
By taxpoor, November 7, 2013 @ 4:20 PM
@ mad- I wanted to ad this to my post.
(The number of homeless, homeless! (as in no roof over your head, wman) Homeless children in public schools rose 10% in 2011-2012 that’s 1.1 million a 72% increase since 2006-2007!)
So who was on office in 2011-2012? Who was in office 2006-2007? ENOUGH SAID
By MaryPoppins, November 7, 2013 @ 4:44 PM
Well Scott, explain to everyone why John Boehner would not bring to a vote the Senate bill(that was already approved by a majority in the Senate) to continue funding the government?
Yes, let’s not let facts get in the way.
The government would have never been shut down had he just done what he ended up doing the first time around.
By scott_starr, November 8, 2013 @ 10:07 AM
@Marypopins:
Are you discussing the bill that would have taken the “sequester savings, and spent it AND THEN SOME”.. ( you know the sequester which Obama was against, but then takes credit for the effects of the sequester, which is a slightly reduced deficit).
Or the bill that would remove the defecit ceiling and essentially give the Treasury unrestrained powers?
What bill did Rachel Maddow and MSNBC tell you should have been approved?
And, please undersrtand that it is not the job of the House to “rubber stamp” what the senate proposes. It does not matter if the vote in the Senate was 100 -0 or 51-49. That is why we have a bicameral legislature.
This administration couldn’t even pass a budget when it was in the majority of both houses.
By scott_starr, November 8, 2013 @ 10:16 AM
@Mad
FYI.. Democrats voted for both wars. Even Bill Clinton, was saying Saddam had WMD. Oh, and if you remember ( I’m sure this is forgotten), there was reports that Iraq moves chemical weapons to Syria in order to circumvent the UN Inspectors. Ummm, what was it that had Obama so angry that he wanted to go to war in Syria????
Was it…. chemical weapons?
Isn’t that special…
Funny, how Obama was “gung ho” to go after Syria ( in their civil war) but left Americans to be killed in Benghazi.
I’m guessing you will say thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan and a few in Libya is not comparison..
That being said, I was not “for” the Iraq invasion. Going after Bin Laden was a different story.
By scott_starr, November 8, 2013 @ 10:18 AM
Whats even funnier taxpoor is that Liberals were all for Obamacare… until they had to pay for it…
By jorn jensen, November 8, 2013 @ 11:22 AM
MaryPoppins, the government should have stayed shut down a lot longer if we had leaders with guts.
By worthingtonman, November 8, 2013 @ 11:38 AM
@MaryPoppins
Explain to us why this president felt it was o.k. not to negotiate the debt hike when it has been done many many times before by many many different presidents. Where are you on the Hypocrisy of Obama himself voting not to raise the debt ceiling? On Obama calling Bush unpatriotic for raising the debt ceiling. I know the shut down started over a spending bill but the way it works if the two parties can’t agree they negotiate. Not these liberals. Obama is a lying Hypocrite. Keep buying the line he is selling you. As far as I see it, what is good for the goose, should be good for the gander.
By steve, November 8, 2013 @ 4:07 PM
Jorn- I made an appointment the other day to see a doctor and I got in the same day. If there is a greater demand for healthcare, you’ll likely see some job creation in this field (and that’s taking into account that your statement is even true).
Cartman- What was that you said? More jobs? People hiring? Great. This wasn’t the case 8 years ago. Something must have been fixed from the recession we were plundered with under Bush.
Worthingtonman- I like my insurance and I kept it. Insurance policies were previously capped, you were denied for pre-existing conditions, college graduates saddled with debt in entry level jobs were going without insurance, etc. What’s the problem with fixing this?
Taxpoor- So you’re a birther and you claim global warming is a hoax? Next are you going to tell us the earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs walked with man?
MaryPoppins- Scott couldn’t explain that becuase Fox News won’t report it. That’s the first he’s heard of it, along with the other conservative posters here.
By steve, November 8, 2013 @ 4:14 PM
Mad- Here’s a nice little anecdote I saw the other day. You’ll enjoy it:
Democrat- So if Obama was conceived in Idaho and his parents moved to Kenya 3 months into the pregnancy, would he still be an American citizen?
Republican- Of course not, he wasn’t alive in America.
Democrat- Oh, so you’re saying that the fetus wasn’t a person?
Republican- Ummm…..
By mad-2010, November 8, 2013 @ 10:34 PM
Taxpoor.. If your 11-7 4:20pm & 11-7 11:24am posts are any indication of your homework you should be held back!
The number of homeless children in the US has nothing to do with who was in office 2006-2007 or 2011-2012. The Recession began in Dec. 2007 (you must have missed the recession due to your Hibernation Period in your bat cave) a fifth of Americans lost jobs, a quarter lost at least 75% of their wealth, and home prices fell,and the long term effects of the recession are still affecting Americans.
Your “no-compromise” politics by your GOP lead Dysfunctional Congress caused a government shutdown that forced the Administration to pay-out 2 billion dollars to employees who weren’t working, and 500 million was lost in visitor spending at US National Parks.
I will not lower myself and call you a Sucker. However, you seem to be a Low-Information Lost Soul! As far as homework goes you might want to try the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, when your Hibernation period is over and you leave that Bat Cave!
By mad-2010, November 9, 2013 @ 7:17 AM
taxpoor.. I wanted to ad this to my post..
The next time I go out for breakfast I’ll see if they have Taxpoor on the menu!
By mad-2010, November 9, 2013 @ 11:14 AM
Wman.. You most have lost your mind to bring up Benghazi! Repubs cut embassy security funding 128 million in 2011 and 331 million in 2012. Clinton warned that doing so would be detrimental to National Security, the Repubs scoffed at her!
Also, Christopher Stephens turned down an offer from a US General for more military presence a few weeks before the attack. Nice try Wman. LOL
By mad-2010, November 9, 2013 @ 12:14 PM
“Republican idea of good welfare recipients.. hedge fund managers, ultra-rich aristocrats who stash their fortunes overseas, hugely profitable corporations that ship our jobs overseas, the military-industrial-complex.”
“Republican idea of bad welfare recipients.. Ordinary people down on their luck,children, the infirm,and the elderly.” ~ NW Burnette
By LouisWinthorpeIII, November 10, 2013 @ 10:44 AM
Life should be based on incentives. Unfortanately, our government doesn’t think so. Let’s make sure everyone is even and to do that, we’re going to deprive the middle class for what they’ve worked for so as to help everyone else BE EVEN!!! Disabled etc., I understand. Look at all the free loaders and people that are double dipping!
By mad-2010, November 10, 2013 @ 5:12 PM
Starr.. spare me your FYI’s.. LOL Nice Try though!
By cartman, November 10, 2013 @ 5:20 PM
Steve,
Why are the welfare buns not taking these jobs? Explain that one!!!
By jorn jensen, November 10, 2013 @ 7:02 PM
Mad - What a spin on Benghazi! So, in your view, The 4 Americans that died in Benghazi deserved to die? Talk about a hypocrite!
Like to hear your spin on Obamacare - “You can keep your policy if you like it. Period.” Keep drinking the Kool-Aid - I’ll drink the TEA.
Did you hear that the ‘O’ has created The Affordable Boat Act. Everyone MUST buy a boat or be fined. You can keep your old boat if you like it. (No you can’t, I was just telling an un-truth).
By jorn jensen, November 10, 2013 @ 7:18 PM
You know, reading the 88 plus posts under this editorial titled, “Property Taxes”, it is clear to see that there is no more middle ground for the posters than there is for the ‘leaders’ in Washington, DC.
There’s people, on here, defending the deaths of the Americans in Benghazi - just like folks in government not responding to an outcry for explanations and apologies on the same topic.
Outright lies on Obamacare, a sign-up system that doesn’t work, higher rates than people were paying in the private sector, 6 total in Washington, DC, signed up while Obama ‘goes on the trail’ to promote Obamacare. And the defense from liberals? It must be a spectacular defense. Something to the effect that Obama’s grand plan for all of us is much more important than a few ‘un-truths’, or some crap like that.
Liberals, just remember this - you can thank someone with a gun for your protection, rights and freedoms in this country.
By scott_starr, November 10, 2013 @ 10:26 PM
@Mad:
FYI…. Obummer is the one who said “No negotiation”….
Even funnier because Congress makes the budget.
I have to say FYI because, it’s something Rachel Maddow did not tell you.
By scott_starr, November 10, 2013 @ 10:44 PM
@Mad…. FYI…. again….
“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” — Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998
The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998
One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
-President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
-President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002
“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003
“Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people.” — Tom Daschle in 1998
“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Gephardt in September of 2002
“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002
Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people.” — Tom Daschle in 1998
By sickofpayingforit, November 10, 2013 @ 11:10 PM
@mad-
Why do non-working government employees get paid? Many companies have shutdowns during the course of the year, and those employees do NOT get paid. They can file for unemployment if qualified, use vacation days, or go unpaid. Why do government employees get paid to stay home? Ever hear of Eljer? They had shutdowns and those guys didn’t get paid for it, other than their vacation pay……
I am no economist, actually never even took the SAT’s or earned a single college credit, but even with my pedestrian math skills, I can deduce that once the number of people collecting overtakes the number of people paying-in, we are in dire straits. Given this elementary logic, I think it would be of great importance to try and get as many people paying-in, as possible…….
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 6:56 AM
Starr.. Spare me your FYI’s in any case.. Keep trying. LOL
There are 442 Billionaires in the US. Tax these 442 Billionaires just 6% more and end Child Poverty, they will not miss thae money!!
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 7:00 AM
Sickof.. I agree with you. I did at one time work at Eljer after high school. There are more working poor than non-working people, if that helps your idea…
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 7:09 AM
JJ.. that 11-10 7:02 post makes no sense at all!!
You might want to buy a new pair of glasses and read my post again..LOL nice try for you,also!!
Did the Repubs cut embassy security funding or not, JJ.. Yes or No answer, can you give me one,JJ?
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 9:36 AM
Bottomline: It seems that Everyone was Duped by Erroneous US Itelligence reports about WMD’s in Iraq, including Average American Citizens and Politicians!
Bottomline: The Commander in Chief (GWB) was/is Ultimately responsible for the Afgan & Iraq Wars, that cost the US Billions, that now have the US in debt till the end of 2014 or longer! Not to mention the waste of American Life!
Bottomline: No WMD were found in Iraq.. However, WMD’s (chemical) were removed from Syria!
This should help you out, Starr….
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 9:51 AM
@ Steve… “Repubs remind me of a bunch of Deranged Robinhoods in Reverse. They take from the Elderly, the Sick, and Children, then give to the Rich.” (Mercy)
Small note: Wall Street bonus money should top 91.3 Billion this year! (Mercy)
Also, 3.7% of the Children in Pa. lived in Poverty in 2007, today 19.3% of the Children in Pa. live in Poverty. Maybe we can get Old Wman to pass the plate and do some good!
By taxpoor, November 11, 2013 @ 10:18 AM
@ Steve
You are right. I do believe the global warming scare tactic of Al Gore and the Lib’s are a hoax. I believe that the earth warms and cools naturally It always has and always will.
@ Mad
Sorry for the late reply no internet service in the cave.
1st- Feel free to lower yourself and call me anything you like. I can take it.
2nd- I wont be reading your book.It was either written by a politician a lawyer or a liberal professor none of witch I care for.
3rd- I am not as uninformed as you would like to believe. Being a conservative I can think and see things for myself.
I do believe the government shut down was the lib’s fault they only shut down parks and public sites and services to show/scare that they have control. And they do. The cops call it blackmail.
I believe in God and Country with out one you cant have the other. This country was founded on Christian beliefs and freedom. Witch in turn allowed for other religions and beliefs to come in and be practiced. But in no way should there be special laws made for them. Your religion or way of life means nothing to me but don’t tell me that our Country or way of life has gotten better sense they have taken God out of our schools . Removed the ten commandments from the public eye. And the Christ out of Christmas. Sorry that’s not middle ground that’s to far left for me.
I believe in tithe. 10% of a poor mans dollar and 10% of a rich mans million is equal and everyone is paying their fare share.
I believe property tax should be equal as well. If you should choose to live in town and are happy with your home that’s great. If you choose to live in town so you don’t have to pay high property taxes then your just trying to beat the system. Don’t penalize me for wanting a nice house in the country and some land that I worked so hard to pay for on my own. So others that are not as ambitious can afford theirs. That’s another way the Liberals penalize the hard working people to keep us all equal. Except for the elected officials on both sides they keep their health care their pensions and their government houses and cars no matter what happens. So my friend If you want to believe this liberal trash and you like the thought of complete government control of your life. By all means keep supporting them and spreading their lies and beliefs. There may still be enough of us Low INFORMATION LOST SOUL’S out their to once again vote these Idiots out of office and make the USA the country it once was . And how it was meant to be.
And one other thing. Don’t make us out to be less compassionate to the sick and poor. I give every Sunday and donate to many charities. But remember this. IT comes from a book I do read. Give a man a fish and feed him for a day.Teach a man to fish and feed him for a life time. Enough said.
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 10:47 AM
JJ… On secound thought your 11-10 7:02 post goes to show how Truly Low a person you really are!! To suggest that I am trying to say the Americans at Benghazi deserved to die is just pure Evil! I have seen this once before when you offered a salution to the family of Mr. Sullivan for his murder in Kittanning.. I feel for your Pathetic Soul…
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 11:19 AM
Sickof.. Sorry I forget this one.. The government employees are probably salaried employees and it may be in their contracts. I once worked for the Social Security Office one summer and that’s how it was then. (along, long time ago)
By steve, November 11, 2013 @ 5:15 PM
cartman- So you agree that the economy is better under Obama than it was under Bush?
Can you please provide hard numbers that define how many people using welfare need it versus how many are “bums”?
Think about what I just asked you. Hopefully you will understand what the question is leading you to consider.
Why aren’t any of the conservatives upset about how much of their tax money goes to corporate subsidies? Hint… it’s far more than what goes to welfare. The Bush era is proof that trickle-down does not work.
It’s funny how conservatives think that if they provide welfare to the rich, they will gain incentive to invest and work for everyone… but if they provide welfare to the poor, they lose incentive to work.
By jorn jensen, November 11, 2013 @ 6:24 PM
sickofpayingforit - You’re doing just fine with good common sense explaining your point of view. You can bet that Mad and most other liberals have advanced educations, which points to one of many problems with higher education - they are hotbeds of liberalism. They don’t want you to worry about where the money comes from, or who all is grabbing it - that is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
steve - So you had no trouble getting in to see a doctor? Good job! You see, only 21 in the whole country have gotten signed up yet for Obamacare, so we’re really still on the ‘old system’ - that’s why you could get in to see the doctor. Give it a year or so and report back.
I think we should blame the Obamacare mess on Bush, somehow. Actualy, Ford sold more Pintos than Obamacare has had signups, and Pinos were deathtraps.
By scott_starr, November 11, 2013 @ 9:02 PM
@MAD:
Thanks for the laughs…. you can’t comeback with any type of cohesive response, or defense of Obummer…
Confirmation bias does not make anything true.
to answer your question on Security Funding for State Department the answer is ……. NO YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN…. Funding for Embassy security has increased EVERY YEAR. ( Congressional Budget Office).
Obama lied and people died…
I bet the Obamacare debacle is caused by some spontaneous protesters due to a youtube video… hahaahhahahahaahaha.
Are you ever tired of being wrong ? Rachel Maddow will lead you to the unpromised land.
By cartman, November 11, 2013 @ 9:05 PM
Steve,
Don’t try to put words in my mouth. We had welfare bums years ago. Why do you have such a problem with the idea of people getting out of the sack and going to work? It’s thanks to people like you that we have the “free stuff army” today.
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 10:15 PM
taxpoor… After all that needless ranting and explanation about what you believe in, the fact remains that the number of homeless children has nothing to do with who was in office 2006-2007 and 2011-2012, doesn’t it?
By mad-2010, November 11, 2013 @ 11:19 PM
The Tea Party House passed a bill to cut food stamps by 4 billion a year. Meanwhile, there are 16.4 million American Children living in poverty!
(Are you reading this taxpoor,these are your boys in the government, not what you do personally by giving to charties.)
The top 1% in America saw their incomes rise by 34%, the rest, 99% the average wage has climbed by only 0.4 percent.
I guess if we give 16.4 million Children fishing poles and take them down to the river we will end Child Poverty! (Isn’t that the way you look at it taxpoor?) While we are down at the river, the Fat Cat Wall Street Conservatives will be enjoying their 91 billion dollar bonus money, Now that’s what I call the Conservative way!!
By taxpoor, November 12, 2013 @ 9:14 AM
@ mad - Good for the house. If there is 16.4 million Children living in poverty My question is why. There is every program under the sun to feed these kids and clothe these kids and if your numbers are correct it proves my argument. These children have parents probably 4th or 5th generation welfare takers that have been taught from childhood how to abuse the system. The more babies I have the bigger the check . WHERE’S MY OBAMA MONEY? That is a problem your hero’s created and maybe it Finally occurred to someone we cant afford this. The tax payer’s can only take so much. If you keep rewarding these people for their actions it’s only going to get worse. Canned Food and clothing and medical attention that’s all the help they need. And they get all of that. Let them do their part for their family’s. Instead of breeding a bigger check.
And the other issue of you Steves and all the other Liberals of higher taxes for the rich is just plain stupid. If the top 1% saw a rise in income great. If wall street made millions great. I know you and the bleeding hearts don’t want to believe this but corporate America Creates the job’s in this country so those of us that work can pay these high taxes. If they don’t make money we don’t make money. Understand? You and your Liberal buds Keep creating these give away programs and now the money goes out faster than it comes in. Understand? SO your solution is to take it directly from the source before it is invested into jobs for us working Americans. It don’t work. It’s not ever going to work. They can keep their money and not invest in America. They can and do take it out of the country to guard and gain on their investments. The Liberal plan with higher corporate taxes chases them out of our country. UNDERSTAND? The EPA , Greenies ,Tree huggers anti coal , anti gas, with their C02 green house gas say no to pipe lines and drilling our own oil policies are forcing these corporations out of our country. Understand? Another rant Mad? You bet . Prove me wrong.
By worthingtonman, November 12, 2013 @ 9:36 AM
@mad2010
You are further off your rocker than Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow combined! Somebody get Mad a band aid!You spew that mindless drivel trying to make conservatives look bad. Only a few on here are even starting to buy the load of manure you are dumping. Taking a great term from the Liberals…Obama is a liar. His whole administration is entangled in scandals.. from fast and furious. To no bid contracts to Michelle’s buddies on Obamacare… to bengazi, yes even the Liberals on T.V. are starting to see what happened here. Watch it un-ravel..
By jorn jensen, November 12, 2013 @ 9:38 AM
Excellent post taxpoor. You won’t convince a single liberal, but excellent post nonetheless.
Mad, you keep stepping deeper and deeper into it. Sorry, you’re no match for Starr and cartman. Give it up.
On your post about Benghazi, 11/9/13, 11:14AM, you state,”You most (I think you meant must) have lost your mind to bring up Benghazi! Then blah, blah, blah. Then, “Also, Christopher Stephens turned down an offer from a US General (un-named) for more military presence a few weeks before the attack.” Applying liberal logic 101 to that statement, “therefore, he deserved to die.” Like I stated, you’ve gone in deeper and deeper. Give it up - you’re just making liberal exuses for the failures of Obama and Hillary.
By scott_starr, November 12, 2013 @ 10:47 AM
@Mad:
Wrong again on Food Stamps…..
This boogeyman of “The Tea Party” really is not getting Democrats nowhere, it’s a false tactic used to cover up their own ineptitude.
You also use the “what about the children” meme, however, the majority of the “proposed” cuts are to Able bodied 1 person households.
Is there no end to the fear mongering?
The food stamp cut came about thanks to the expiration of a 13.6 percent benefits increase contained in the 2009 stimulus bill. The increase wasn’t supposed to expire, but congressional Democrats used the allocated money to pay for other spending priorities in 2010. They said they’d replace the funds, but they broke their promise. (The cut is separate from Republican efforts to reduce the number of people who receive benefits.)
Article #2
Rather, some of the food-stamp cash was snatched to pay for Michelle Obama’s pet project, Let’s Move. What?
It’s come to this. Some 76 million meals a year will vanish from this city — poof! — partly because the president diverted money from SNAP to the first lady’s signature program, part of her Let’s Move anti-obesity initiative — the bean-sprout-heavy, $4.5 billion Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act.
The rest of the $5 billion annual food-stamp cuts was taken when 2009 stimulus funds dried up. But with ObamaCare woes stealing the oxygen in Washington, there’s little urgency to replace dandelion greens served on recyclable trays with family-friendly buttered mashed potatoes.
Article #3
Negotiations on a wide-ranging farm bill, including cuts to the SNAP program, began Wednesday. Five-year farm bills passed by both the House and the Senate would cut food stamps, reductions that would come on top of the cut that will go into effect Friday. But the two chambers are far apart on the amounts.
Legislation passed by the GOP-controlled House would cut food stamps by an additional $4 billion annually and tighten eligibility requirements. The House bill would also end government waivers that have allowed able-bodied adults without dependents to receive food stamps indefinitely and allow states to put broad new work requirements in place.
By sgt major, November 12, 2013 @ 1:58 PM
OK, It has been almost a month that you guys have arguing back and forth about this. Isn’t it about time to move onto another topic??? You guys sound like crying, whining babies. Don’t believe me? Just read some of the posts you have made.
By steve, November 12, 2013 @ 10:10 PM
Cartman- You say “don’t put words in my mouth”, then proceed to put words in mine. I’ve never said I had a problem with people going to work, did I? Nope.
I just think you’re mad at the wrong folks. The real welfare queens are the corporations inhaling your tax dollars. The amount of tax money given to retailers such as Wal-Mart, oil companies, etc far outpace what is given to people who “can work, but don’t want to”.
Like I said… trickle down didn’t work or else we’d have been swimming with jobs under Bush. It was quite the opposite, wasn’t it?
Bush never cut spending. We spent at the same rate, but the rich weren’t taxed as much.
Check out the failure that our government calls the F-35 fighter jet. We spent over $400 billion and it’s an absolute failure.
Where is your outrage? Yourself, Scott, Jorn, Cartman, & taxpoor won’t put a dent in that over a lifetime of tax payments combined.
By steve, November 12, 2013 @ 10:15 PM
I have noticed something reading through all of the comments on this blog. Look at who all of the “name callers” are.
Conservatives sure are an odd lot Mad…..
FYI Jorn- I’ll still be able to see a doctor in the same amount of time next year as well.
You see, you’re already paying for the people receiving free health care right now, just as you were a year ago, etc. People do tend to see doctors, so I don’t see what you’re complaining about.
Yes, the working poor will have healthcare now and get to see doctors. But you want to help the working poor, right?
That’s at least the story worthingtonman is giving us. Are you saying you don’t want to help the working poor? Please explain.
By Flamingo1, November 13, 2013 @ 12:19 AM
@Scott
I am not sure where you got your information on security funding for embassies. I looked CBO figures and found funding for embassy security at !.8 billion in 2010 and it dropped to !.5 billion in 2012.
So tell me what the scandal is about Benghazi. There was a terrorist attack on one of our embassies and four were killed. In the last 50 years there have been dozens of attacks on our embassies. Some worse than others. Your point is what?
By jorn jensen, November 13, 2013 @ 6:57 AM
steve- Read taxpoor’s explanation for an expalantion. There has to be a limit to the giveaways, but you iberals don’t get it.
By scott_starr, November 13, 2013 @ 10:06 AM
@flamingo
Congress ( both D and R) do not, in my opinion, use the term budget properly. A budget in my home and in business is not what you ask for, it’s what you get.
Picture it like this, you ask you boss for a $10K raise. The boss says $7K is what will be offered. Do you say to your family that your boss cut your pay by $3K or do you say you got a $7K raise ?
It is a political game with the budget, one party asks for a high amount, they don’t get the full amount then claim their budget was “cut”…
That’s Washington D.C. for you.
Also, Embassy’s and the State Department has a lot of latitude in how they spend their budget.
I’m not sure what CBO figures you looked at. Below are some details from the source:
Congressional Budget Justification Volume 1 : Department of State operations Fiscal Year 2013.( referencing a specific Governmental Source)
————-
Comparing FY 2011 actual funding versus the FY 2012 estimate, there appears to be a reduction in Worldwide Security Protection and Embassy Security, Construction and Maintenance. But that reduction does not account for additional funding in FY 2012 from Overseas Contingency Operations funds amounting to $236 million for Worldwide Security Protection (p. 63) and $33 million for Embassy Security, Construction and Maintenance (p. 467). As a result, total funds for Worldwide Security Protection for FY 2012 are estimated to be $94 million higher than in FY 2011, while Embassy Security, Construction and Maintenance is estimated to be $61 million less than FY 2011. Together, there is a net increase.
In terms of people, the budget justification reported that Worldwide Security Protection had slightly fewer positions budgeted (1,777 in FY 2011 versus 1,707 in FY 2012) and Embassy Security, Construction and Maintenance had the same number of positions budgeted (1,014 for both years).
————-
It is tempting to look for a scapegoat for the tragic events in Libya. However, if one exists, the overall budget for embassy security is not it. Funding for that purpose has risen sharply over the past decade. Moreover, the State Department has considerable latitude in allocating security funds based on current events and intelligence on possible threats.
———-
Finally, if you think the “scandal” is budget cuts, please re-think.
Nice job, by the way to take 2010 figures and compare them to 2012 figures to get your “cut”
My point was in response to Mad…. read a little further up.
By steve, November 13, 2013 @ 4:52 PM
taxpoor-
1. You claim we’re on our 4th & 5th generation of welfare then call it “Obama money”. I didn’t realize he’s been president for what would equal longer than a half century.
2. If giving the extremely wealthy larger tax breaks helps the economy, please explain the Bush era recession. Like I said before, we should have been swimming in jobs if this were the case.
3. Please explain your thoughts on my comment; “It’s funny how conservatives think that if they provide welfare to the rich, they will gain incentive to invest and work for everyone… but if they provide welfare to the poor, they lose incentive to work.”
4. You stated that the rich “already take their money out of the country to gain on their investments”. Taxes are lower for corporate America than they ever have been. If they’re taking it out now, that totally negates your argument that they would invest if taxes were even lower.
Please explain that. (I’m certain you’ll ignore that one)
5. Do you really want to get rid of the EPA? I’d rather not get cancer because some corporate scumbag made the decision to secretly add something to our waterways.
Not all liberals are complete “greenies”. Some of us just realize that in the long run, you can’t eat money once everything is poisoned.
By steve, November 14, 2013 @ 11:40 AM
So Jorn- Lets get this straight…
You’re more upset over people receiving welfare benefits than you are about the government spending $400 billion on a plane that can’t do it’s job if it gets foggy?
Remember, that is just ONE failed project. Imagine how much more has been wasted……