EDITORIAL: Push for Property Tax Elimination Set for Monday
by Jorn Jensen
School district property taxes are rising much faster than the gross average weekly wage or inflation and people are losing their paid-off homes to this perpetual school district tax rent on their paid-off homes..
Over the past 20 years, school property taxes have risen, on average, 146 percent, while average weekly wage has risen 84 percent and inflation has risen 59 percent, according to the Pennsylvania Independent Fiscal Office. The impact on the property owner is even more staggering when you realize the average weekly wage is calculated in gross wages, not net wages. My personal property taxes have risen 25 percent in just the recent 5 years alone.
The proponents of eliminating school property taxes correctly point out that the burden of funding schools unfairly targets, and financially hurts, the homeowner, landlord, and small business owner. There are 3.2 million homeowners paying property taxes in Pennsylvania while there are 12.7 million Pennsylvania residents. Do the math.
Data on rental rate increases reveal that renters are also being financially punished by out-of-control, rapidly rising property taxes. Over the same 20 year period, rental rates have increased 100 percent, on average, according to census records. This demonstrates that landlords are unable to pass along the full increase of school property taxes.
School property taxes slowly erode the standard of living of everyone living in Pennsylvania, hurting lower-income folks and contributing to community blight all across the state. There is very low impetus to maintain or upgrade property because owners are squeezed financially by increased property taxes for upgrades. This has created a self-perpetuating downward spiral with regard to property maintenance in our communities.
On Monday, May 16th, a group of Indiana/Armstrong Counties taxpayers will travel to Harrisburg to meet with HB & SB 76 – friendly legislators and show support for passage of HB/SB 76, property tax elimination. State Senator Don White is SB 76- friendly and a supporter of SB 76 – he has agreed to receive and meet with the group.
State representative Jeff Pyle, who ran on, and was elected on his property tax elimination platform, has voted down every HB 76 bill presented, and has not presented a property tax elimination bill of his own writing. We don’t suspect that he’ll want to meet with us.
Indiana County commissioners are traveling along. By this letter to the editor, I am inviting the Armstrong County commissioners to travel along with us.
Editorial | KP NewsDesk May 13, 2016
By blutoblutarsky, May 13, 2016 @ 1:21 PM
“people are losing their paid-off homes to this perpetual school district tax rent on their paid-off homes.”
Move over Hemingway… there’s a new kid in town. HAHA
By jorn jensen, May 16, 2016 @ 4:48 AM
That’s it? Only blutopyle? And you claim to be a republican when the PSEA owns you?
I’ll stop by your office today so you can give me a big handshake and pat on the back.
Yes, bluto, just check out the list of sheriff’s sales. You can get a copy at the sheriff’s office.
Where are the other haters?
By Rainbow Rider, May 16, 2016 @ 9:26 AM
If jenny is riding a bus I bet it’ll be a short one!
😉
By jorn jensen, May 16, 2016 @ 10:21 PM
It was an excellent trip today - excellent weather. And Jeff Pyle did show up and meet with us, as did Don White and numerous others. Jeff made some comments to the effect that he understands the grief with teacher salaries and benefits. He sat with fellow legislators that do support HB & SB 76. He left before our meeting was over.
There was also discussion about the sunshine law and stealth agendas in public meetings - the folks in Indiana have that problem with their commissioners, the folks in Armstrong County have that problem with the school board (ASD). There is pressure to update the sunshine law due to technology advances - emails, teleconferencing and such, for directors to conduct business on the sly - the public is allowed to be aware of what is going on and there are penalties for violations of sunshine laws. If you’ve ever attended an ASD board meeting, you have to wonder how, in the public meeting, they all go down through a long agenda in 15 minutes, with no dialogue on any agenda items, and all unanimous voting. Are they really that good? Or are they getting the dialogue done in executive sessions, emails, teleconferences, and so forth? Convince yourself. Pay attention to the details.
Here’s the clincher - it is not Harrisburg that creates the massive property tax burden - it is the school boards and the PSEA - they ‘negotiate’ all of this good stuff using your tax dollars. Even the legislators shake their heads at what Pennsylvania school boards do to taxpayers.
So, when you hear me harp on the PSEA and teachers on school boards, and relatives of school board members directly in bargaining units (nepotism), you’ll understand that the PSEA is effectively negotiating with itself to manage your property tax dollars.
When more people catch on to this scheme, hopefully a few things will happen - 1) Increased support for HB/SB 76 property tax elimination 2) Some candidates for school board come forward that truly care about the taxpayer along with public education 3) That there is an effort to de-power school boards’ ability to tax taxpayers.
By bob, May 16, 2016 @ 10:38 PM
@ Jorn,
I am seriously LOL. Why must you try and guess who these anonymous posters are on this site?
By jorn jensen, May 16, 2016 @ 10:57 PM
No tax should have the power to leave you homeless.
By Just sayin, May 17, 2016 @ 5:29 AM
“Where are the other haters?”
In JJ’s own words, “You’re so loony that people merely hit the ‘ignore’ button.”
by Justhadtowriteit
By Rainbow Rider, May 17, 2016 @ 9:41 AM
Bob, jenny’s infatuation with guessing names of posters is probably a sign of schizophrenia and paranoia. Perhaps dementia as well.
By Rainbow Rider, May 17, 2016 @ 9:49 AM
jenny, when you saw Jeff Pyle did you tell him that you ‘know’ ( lol ) that he posts on this site under the name Bluto Blutarsky ?
LOL
By Marc, May 17, 2016 @ 11:21 AM
Jensen, nobody is going to take twenty rubes wearing shorts and fanny packs to a “meeting” in Harrisburg seriously. They forgot about you once your driver touched the gas pedal.
By blutoblutarsky, May 18, 2016 @ 5:04 PM
Bob- Jensen said it, so it has to be true. Here I come Harrisburg!
Remember, he knows who Steve is because he actually knows of one African American named Steve in Armstrong County, Marc is in county government, Forward is his neighbor, Worthingtonman is on a school board… the list goes on and on.
Let’s call the networks and see if we can get him to star in a new show, CSI Worthington.
By Rainbow Rider, May 20, 2016 @ 12:31 AM
Did jenny have a permission slip from his wife to go on the field trip to Harrisburg?
LOL
By jd718, May 20, 2016 @ 4:45 AM
And to think Jensen was talking about cheap entertainment on another tread! That’s Funny!
By jorn jensen, May 20, 2016 @ 7:10 AM
Eight response comments - none of which were on-topic. And we wonder why our area is in such a shape.
By Flamingo1, May 20, 2016 @ 10:55 AM
Jorn
1- Are you really interested in discussion? If someone disagrees with you then you do name calling and insult.
2-SB76 has been around for years. In hearings the money doesn’t add up. Even the Chamber of Commerce doesn’t support it.
3- Your statement No Tax should make someone homeless is meaning less. The federal and state income taxes can do the same.
4- How has your property tax increased 25%? Are you telling the true story. Mine have not.
5. The statement that you want to de-power school boards to levy taxes is alarming. This is basic democracy. We have had school boards with ability to tax and fund schools since 1780 in Pennsylvania. And you want to stop that? This is basic government.
6- So what insults will you levy and advance?
By steve, May 20, 2016 @ 1:16 PM
Jeff Pyle, CSI Worthington, fanny packs, permission slips, cheap entertainment… too funny guys.
Rainbow Rider- I bet his wife MADE him go on the trip! She probably needed a day off from hearing about Obama, taxes and H(air)B(all)76.
By jorn jensen, May 21, 2016 @ 1:31 PM
The following letter to the editor appeared in the Pocono Record, May 20th, 2016:
Letter: Latest Stroudsburg School Tax Hike Too Much
The silence is deafening! Nobody cares to comment on a 6.5 mil tax increase and property reassessment. I guess I’m the only one hanging on by the skin of my teeth. We are childless. but have paid 4 times more than the purchase price of our home, over the years, in school tax. When I can no longer pay, the sheriff will show up and evict me and take “my” house for unpaid taxes.
The population of Stroudsburg - I won’t use the word “people” - recently voted into office the same school board that we got rid of a few years ago (the tax-and-spend teachers and ex-teachers group). I won’t call names, but I can still think it. If cornered, even a rat will come out fighting.
Signed, William R. Snyder, Stroudsburg
Sound familiar? So, it is not just ASD. This disease is all over the state.
No tax should have the power to leave someone homeless.
By jorn jensen, May 23, 2016 @ 9:00 AM
The following letter to the editor appeared in the Pocono Record, May 22, 2016:
Letter: Seniors Still Working - No Time to Volunteer
I read, with interest, the article suggesting that senior citizens could receive a “discount” on the school property taxes by volunteering in the school districts to receive same. Quite frankly, myself included, at the age of 69, we are still working and do not see ourselves as ever retiring. Social security does not enable us to pay for our homes, taxes, medical insurance and myriad of other expenses to do so. So, to suggest that we volunteer is out of the question for most of us since we are continuing to work to survive. I suggest that anyone 65 and older be exempt from these taxes since we have paid our entire lives and some of us have never had children to benefit from the school system. And, we watch as many seniors are forced from their homes because they cannot economically afford to stay.
Patricia Jeanschild, East Stroudsburg
With all due respect, I disagree with Patricia’s final solution to this problem because it only addresses the problem of those 65 and older. HB/SB 76, property tax elimination, addresses the problem for all, not just seniors.
HB/SB 76 eliminates school property taxes, an ‘assessed’ tax and replaces it , dollar for dollar, with increased sales and income taxes - taxes that are a direct percentage of ‘moving money’ rather than ‘assessed value’. Time to get on-board and push your legislators on this important tax change. Don White is a supporter of SB 76. Jeff Pyle has consistently voted down HB 76 proposed legislation - but won’t give the public a ‘reason’.
The problem? PSEA infiltration of school boards - the PSEA is effectively negotiating with itself with encouraging teachers, teacher relatives and retired teachers to be on school boards. Like the fox guarding the hen house and deciding how many hens to eat each day.
No tax should have the power to leave someone homeless.
By Marc, May 24, 2016 @ 5:23 PM
Oh wow, two copies of editorials from old people that don’t want to pay their taxes! Stop everything, Fanny pack Jensen has the smoking gun!!!
I hope these folks realize that when you purchase your home the taxes are outlined right on the paperwork you’ve signed. You were made completely aware that they also may increase. If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it.
By sickofpayingforit, May 25, 2016 @ 12:32 AM
Spot on Jorn.
Exactly what I have been saying as well.
They put a bunch of people in prison for forcing property owners to pay money for “protection”.
The government just makes a law and forces people to pay for their house they already own, or they will seize it.
No wonder they want to take our guns………
By jd718, May 25, 2016 @ 8:23 AM
Oh Boy, let’s throw Guns into the Equation, typical right-wing nut-job!!!
By jorn jensen, May 26, 2016 @ 7:46 AM
jd718, do you have any comment, of any value, on the subject matter? Why not post your resume”?
By steve, May 26, 2016 @ 11:22 PM
What does anyone’s resume have to do with the conversation? Jensen is just butthurt that everyone thinks his editorial is a joke.
What the heck is sickof talking about with that “protection” comment? These guys are whacked out of their thick skulls.
By jd718, May 27, 2016 @ 6:54 AM
@Jensen, Point out the value in sickof’s comment, HA-HA!
By jd718, May 27, 2016 @ 7:22 AM
Stay with them Scott Star, Really Jensen! We all know you Orchestrate the Snott-Star posts! You should get that Boy some Help!
By jorn jensen, May 27, 2016 @ 8:06 AM
and there you have an ‘on-topic’ comment from steve. Good job, steve.
By jd718, May 27, 2016 @ 4:57 PM
You have to watch out for the Comment Value Police! Now Resumes, How Funny!
By jorn jensen, May 28, 2016 @ 12:21 PM
steve - We realize that you’re not the sharpest liberal in the drawer, so we’ll try to help you understand resume’. A resume’ tends to show how a person thinks based upon life’s work, experience, actions, accomplishments and so forth. As related to the joke editorial above, let’s assume that you are a union official in the PSEA and that you don’t own property - and have no friends or family that own property. You would be, of course, against property tax elimination since you presently don’t pay property taxes in support of education, and, that you are a member of a group that wants to protect its turf of income. You would not want property taxes replaced with increased income and sales taxes because you probably pay those now - why would you want those increased and fair to all? Let’s just think of you and not others. There are consumers who do not presently pay property taxes - look at how much bigger the pool of payers becomes when we all pay for schools. 3.2 million property owners and 12.7 million residents - 4 times the present ‘payers’ into education. Imagine what that can do for this state (commonwealth).
The fact is, steve, we’re a strong group and we’re coming to correct taxation. The PTCC will get it done though legislators that understand their responsibility. Hold on to seat steve.
By sickofpayingforit, May 28, 2016 @ 11:29 PM
marc-
“if you can’t afford it, don’t buy it”
You should go to a school board meeting!
By localtaxpayer, May 30, 2016 @ 1:24 PM
“Up until the 20th century, advancement of civilization was defined by the strongest among us.
Now, it appears its going to be defined by the weakest among us.”
By Rainbow Rider, May 31, 2016 @ 8:50 AM
jenny has presented a scenario above explaining why a person who lives like he described would be opposed to property tax elimination.
Let’s propose another scenario just in the interest of fairness.
Let’s say you are the type of person who, brags about your income, but lives very frugally.
Let’s say, just for example, that even though you could buy nice things you choose to dress in shabby clothes, drive an old clunker with rust on it and homemade pipes sticking out the back, and in general just buy only the bare essentials to live.
If you are this kind of person then you would be for property tax elimination because you’d get out of paying your fair share simply by continuing to live like a miser.
Like wonder wo-man said about someone stretching pennies into copper wire.
By jd718, May 31, 2016 @ 10:05 AM
@Steve: Note the Trump Slogan in the Bennett Article about Memorial Day, Just Disgusting in my Opinion!
By Marc, May 31, 2016 @ 9:07 PM
Careful Steve, don’t underestimate the strength of Jensen’s group. They’re storming Harrisburg in their jorts, fanny packs and white tube socks. These whiners, I mean… patriots mean business! LOL
By steve, June 2, 2016 @ 3:46 PM
Jensen- A resume shows how someone thinks? Since when?
“resume: a brief account of a person’s education, qualifications, and previous experience, typically sent with a job application.”
It’s nothing more than list of past achievements and qualifications to obtain a job. Nobody on this thread is applying for a job. Please show me where a poster’s resume is relevant to this article? Comments like this are why everyone thinks you are a joke.
Rainbow Rider has you pegged. You want nothing more than someone else to pay your taxes. When is the next welfare queen bus to Harrisburg? Maybe Marc can call Wal-Mart to make sure they’re all stocked up on white tube socks for you.
By jorn jensen, June 3, 2016 @ 7:09 AM
Fair share, Rainbow Rider, is every resident liable for the cost of public education - not just property owners. I realize it is tough for yourself, steve JD, Marc to grasp such concept because your mentality presents a need to attack the presenter instead of the topic.
Again 3.2 million property owners (property taxpayers) in Pennsylvania and 12.7 million residents in the state. So, 1/4 are paying for public education and a whacked-out liberal, like yourself, would call that ‘fair’. Again, it shows your mentality.
I’m glad that you like my Monte Carlo. I like it also.
Marc, although you have to add your liberal trolling, you do state some fact - this is a growing group and we are active - we are patriots - active in Harrisburg, active locally. Just look up the PTTC on the internet and learn something. If you troll it, you’ll be tossed quite quickly as it is a sharp group that has your type well-figured-out.
By blutoblutarsky, June 3, 2016 @ 2:45 PM
jensen, don’t you have that list to post for Marc before any resume’s start flying on here?
By elderman, June 3, 2016 @ 2:52 PM
I have read through the comments on JJ’s editorial and am very disappointed in their lack of staying on subject. Most of the comments do not discuss, praise, or refute HB/SB 76 but instead personally attack Jorn Jensen, the writer of the article. What is gained or accomplished by these types of comments?
How many of you have actually taken the time to read the content or even a summary of HB/SB 76. I have engaged one negative commentator on this website in regard to what he had written to criticize these reform bills. On the first occasion he criticized the bill because he claimed it would “heavily tax prescription drugs.” Actually prescription drugs are exempt from being taxed by HB/SB 76. On the second occasion he cited that older people paying rent to live in assisted living facilities and not paying real estate taxes would begin to pay taxes under HB/SB 76. This comment was poorly thought out in that in fact renters do pay the taxes on the property they rent only they do it indirectly (It is included in the rent along with other expenses that landlords must consider in deciding what they must charge in order to gain a profit.) I am not going to reveal which commenter made these false or poorly thought out criticisms but they show a general rush to criticize something new that could and in my opinion would be an improvement over our current tax code.
So, here is an invitation to the commenter who made the untrue claim in his post, who made the poorly thought out claim in his post, and in fact to all the commenter’s who attack JJ for backing HB/SAB 76 – no, not an invitation, consider it an ASSIGNMENT: Please comment on why you think the current tax code of taxing only property owners is such a good idea. Explain to me why property owners and not the general public should be subject to this tax. Why is the current tax code better/fairer than the one propose in HB/SB 76? Here is a hint; the fact that we have been doing it like that for years does not qualify as a valid reply and will be rejected out of hand.
Adam Grafton
By Rainbow Rider, June 4, 2016 @ 4:16 PM
jenny, how many of those 12.7 million residents are children?
By jerry6, June 4, 2016 @ 7:13 PM
Jensen” Why do you have to ruin everything you write on here by trying to downgrade a democrat? This takes away from any credibility you have on everything you write. We all know you are a conservative and you don’t like liberals so lay off the constant insults to democrats.
By jd718, June 4, 2016 @ 7:13 PM
Jensen, when you talk that wacked-out liberal junk and Pushing for Snot-Star to stay with the Liberals are you then any different than the people you say attack? I think not! Some people only see an attack against you, have no time for those types! However, go on about the taxes!!
By jorn jensen, June 5, 2016 @ 9:32 AM
And Rainbow Rider criticizes me for driving a winter-beater. I suppose this liberal would rather that I drive the Porsche in the salt. Such simple people.
By Jerri, June 6, 2016 @ 1:18 AM
After reading through the above mess of what i mistakenly thought would be intelligent comments, I can see why our county is in the mess it is in. If these are representative of the best retorts concerning the serious issue of eliminating property taxes that you all can come up with, then we may as well just put our homes up for sale now while we still have a chance to sell them before we lose them to tax sales. Aside from a few that have actually bothered to read the HB76 bill, all I see are immature comments from people apparently afraid this bill may pass. Why? What personal stake do you have in this? Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
For years, all we’ve heard on here is taxes, taxes, taxes. Close schools, get a new school board. Have to save money. Our taxes are higher than EVERYWHERE! Blah blah blah. The same big mouths that have been on this site for years griping about saving money saying we taxpayers can’t afford anything are the same ones that suddenly were silent when their “dream school” was built. Oh they can say this school board HAD to spend the money (lie-they stopped all efforts to do differently) or they can tell themselves that this school “only” costs $55 million (lie-that’s basically the cost of the shell of the building. Do some math and add all the costs that they conveniently don’t mention and see we are only hearing half the story.). But these outraged people are suddenly silent about a high school we couldn’t afford. Now their outrage is aimed at the best chance of eliminating school property taxes in the history of Pennsylvania. HB76. So why is that? Aside from the ones posting here for no other reason than to make fun of the writer of the editorial (which aren’t even worth my time), the real question goes to hypocrites like flamingo1 and his cronies. What personal stake do they have that suddenly they’re not concerned about taxes and now are up in arms against HB76?
As far as Jeff Pyle, we all know that he looks out for number one. A former teacher who I’m sure is in bed with the PSEA. A shame because teachers pay property taxes, too. I don’t believe the PSEA is looking into their best interests. As far as White. He says he is for HB76 and he did vote for it when it was on the senate floor. However, I believe White only votes for what he thinks will benefit him at the time so if his wealthy pals change their mind on this, so will he. Regardless, since White is doing his current grandstanding by saying he supports this bill, then let’s make him actually work to prove it. He’s been in office over a decade. What has he done to get this moving? After all, we all know how much he “cared” aboit our high taxes here. Who could forget his part in getting our new school built? On one of his wealthiest campaign contributors land yet. Sorry but Don White has a lot to prove to show he really does support this bill. Make him get out there and campaign to his colleagues across the state and his puppet, Pyle, too.
By RESHSW, June 6, 2016 @ 7:54 AM
Adam aka elderman,
I have to agree with you regarding how rude, crude and oftentimes ignorant many of these comments have become, on all of the stories. My guess is the people were one time bullies during their school years. I skim over the comments anymore hating to see how low their words are bringing them. It definitely has turned into a hate fest, not just stating what you believe.
By Rat_Smeller, June 6, 2016 @ 1:04 PM
The current system of the taxation of property and income is in reality no different than what the serfs were subject to in medieval Europe under the feudal system.
In Medieval Europe, a Serf would obtain their subsistence by cultivating a plot of land that was owned by a Lord. The serf provided their own food and clothing from their own productive efforts. A substantial portion of the grain produced by the serf on his holding had to be given to his lord. The serf had to use his Lord’s grain mills and no others. Now there were other more onerous attributes that went along with serfdom that do not correlate now such as a serf could not permanently leave his holding without his Lord’s permission. Serfs had little legal redress against the actions of their Lords. A serf could only become a freedman through manumission, enfranchisement or escape.
In 2016 Pennsylvania a person buys a house and some property (usually with a mortgage) and pays a tax that is assessed by the local government. Most mortgages have the property taxes rolled into the monthly mortgage payment. This is to ensure that the property taxes are paid every year and the bank’s position is protected. Once the mortgage is paid off it is the alleged property owner’s responsibility to pay the taxes on time. I say alleged property owner for a reason and this is why - If a property owner does not pay the taxes on property that they allegedly own then law enforcement can forcibly evict the alleged property owner by force at the point of a gun. Now, if this is possible, then who really owns the land?
Its not about getting out of paying taxes. A certain level of taxation is necessary in order to have a properly functioning government and not have the nation, state and local descend into anarchy. Its about the morality of the tax in question. Is it really moral to tax one’s home and production (in this case production is income)? If the government has the power and the means to tax our property and our income then what are we? Citizens or Subjects?
By worthingtonman, June 6, 2016 @ 11:40 PM
Owning property is not a right, it is a privilege. Everybody purchasing land and building homes or businesses knew going into it that they would be paying property taxes. Are our taxes higher due to sins of others? Yes they are. And we can all thank a former school director from Gord City for that. But everybody knows the end result of buying property homes is going to equate into taxes. All property dwellers and ownersbpaubtaxes wether through taxes or in their rent. Whatnots unfair about that? I can tell you the main problem with the proposed bill is that there are too many ways for the wealthy. And unhealthy alike to avoid paying the new taxes. The wealthy will buy everything they can to avoid sales taxes. This I know. The one thing I found about the wealthy is that will but your throat to save a dime. And the wealthier they get they greedier they get. Case in point, a certain representative in the House of Representatives owns a car lot. Instead of paying to have his garbage hauled away from his house, he sends an employee of the car lot to his house to retrieve his garbage and put it in the dumpster at the car lot. Here is a man so filthy rich and he won’t even pay to have garbage hauled from his house.?Over the years I have been exposed to greed and find it to be ruin of our civilization. Listen folks. When we we get older we are stupid not to put our houses in our kids name. If not the state will take it from you when you end up in a home. Let your kid pay the taxes. If they don’t want it and you poorly planned for your future then downsize. Don’t get me started on farms. Most of these are hand me downs from generation to generation and receive more government welfare then a city government housing plan. Enough of my rant. In a nutshell, property taxes will be paid… Nearly impossible to avoid. Sales taxes can be avoided and would be greatly abused by the rich and those too greedy to pay their property taxes.
By Rainbow Rider, June 6, 2016 @ 11:45 PM
Tightwad jensen must’ve gotten his depends undergarment all in a bunch over my example. LOL
If that shoe fit, you probably need a new pair.
LOL
By jorn jensen, June 7, 2016 @ 8:49 AM
Excellent comments, Dr. Solak. We mostly agree. They ‘tried’ to ‘sell’ the money - for three whole days, they tried. “Oh well, now what do we do? I know, let’s build a new school and they will come!” I do disagree with you on senator Don White - I do believe that he is actually working on SB76. We met with him, and other legislators, recently, in Harrisburg. The same meeting that Jeff Pyle ‘slithered’ out of partway through - first got up, one step backward toward the door behind him, then two more, then grab the door handle, and then ‘poof’.
You, Dr. Solak, did the most to cause high costs in this district, by keeping under-utilized schools open, and re-opened. By borrowing $80 million to do so. Most of these river valley communities had consolidated as early as 50 years ago - but ASD hung on with massive local pride - NOT closing MY school!
The data tells the truth. 1974, 15,000 students and 525 teachers - somewhere 28 or 29 to 1 ratio. 2010 5500 students, 500 teachers - 11 to 1 ratio. 2015 - 5100 students, 475 teachers - 10.7 to 1 ratio. If the ‘ideal’ cost-effective ratio is 25 to 1, then what does this data say? To me, it says that we are running a tutoring academy, even WITH consolidation. Prior to consolidation, we were running multiple private tutoring academies, and that was even necessary just to run readin’, writin’, and ‘rithmatic due to a lack of consolidation.
Consolidation was necessary and long-overdue. Doing it correctly was where Joe Close and buddies blew it.
As recent an example as just yesterday - an outdoor graduation ceremony, the first one for the Taj Mahal on the Hill, with a forecast threat of rain - and then it rained. We’re paying this superintendent $167k per year? And now an assistant at $133k per year? And we can’t manage a graduation ceremony properly? And that lane, in and out, unbelievable. If there was ever a necessary evacuation at that site, people will be running 360 degrees to all woods.
ASD is not alone. Look at Leechburg Area School District. Graduating 66. Two closed mills - one each side of the river. No work. When I was on school board in Leechburg, we closed two elementaries and consolidated into the ‘town’ school. That was a band-aid. We looked at joining Kiski. The town went into an uproar - “Do you realize Kiski’s reputation? I don’t want my kids going there!” Here it is, 30 years later and Leechburg Area is still chugging along sucking taxpayers dry. So, who has the reputation now? Close it. Not for the reputation reason - for the saving of homes devastated by property taxes - plus, get improved classes offerings with an increased student body size - at Kiski.
Make decisions on sound financial analysis, not emotion. No tax should render a person homeless.
worthingtonman - not reading your stuff - you’re in the same category with JD, Flamingo and the ‘like’.
By Rat_Smeller, June 7, 2016 @ 10:36 AM
Worthingtonman - First of all owning property is not a privilege. It is a right. In fact it is the part of the foundation for our representative republic. Not everyone chooses to exercise this right though. Second, you are nothing more than a shill for this current school board. Sure mistakes were made by the previous board but that does not excuse the tremendous gaffes that this one is making. Third, How do rich people get out of paying a sales tax? No matter how rich or poor you are you have to eat, you need clothing, household necessities, etc. As long as you re-work the sales tax law to apply the sales tax to everything then there is no loophole to exploit. There are plenty of loopholes for property and income taxes that the rich constantly exploit.
4th. The representative that owns the car lot and has someone go to his house to get his garbage and take it the dumpster at the car lot - What is wrong with that? Its good business as along as he is having one of the car dealership employees do it and not an employee of his rep’s office do it on the public dime. 5th. Your estate planning methods are laughable. “Let your kid pay the taxes.” So you are basically advocating pushing off your responsibility onto your children. That’s Liberal 101 for you right there. Dump off your current responsibilities onto the future generations. Its people like you that got this country about 33 trillion (when you count unfunded mandates) in debt.
By scott_starr, June 7, 2016 @ 2:19 PM
@worthingtonman:
“Owning property is not a right, it is a privilege”
Really ? You may want to check that.
You don’t have the right to have someone pay for your property, but you have the right to own property.
If not for the protection of owning private property none of the other in the Original Bill of Rights would have existed.
By scott_starr, June 7, 2016 @ 3:17 PM
I’m trying hard to reconcile some things:
1. A small Government Conservative wants big government to fund schools.
2. A Big Government Liberal wants local (smaller) government control.
The problem with this bill is rather simple:
1. Government can’t keep a budget, allowing State Control of School funding will be no different. While removing property taxes may help homeowners, increasing income taxes will hurt workers, and decrease jobs. ( right conservatives?).
2. If you think School funding is a political football now, just wait until it gets to the Legislature. Locally, in the not so distant past, a group of folks formed HERO and through a democratic vote, gained a majority on the school board… You can’t get much more citizen participation than that. Regardless if one was pro or anti the HERO agenda, they DID something about it.
3. If you think school funding is unfair now, wait until the legislature gets involved. The money will go where there are votes, and contributors. A prediction is that you will have districts consolidating to gain political power to get cash.
4. If the Teachers union is powerful now, wait until the Legislature is in control of the purse strings.
5. Easy to see the following headline. Seniors spend a larger portion of their income than families, so the sales tax disproportionately hurts Seniors. Exempt them from Sales taxes, and up the income tax.
6. Next headline ” What about the children” when the legislature increases the income tax to 5%, then 6% then 7%.. What politican will vote against spending increases ? Then they are “against children” ( a stupid argument, but…).
7. next budget impasse, where will the money come from ? How long will a teacher work without getting paid ?
8. If you think School Administrators make excessive salary now, wait until other Administrators get to choose their salary.
Short term, it will reduce the burden for most, medium to long term, jobs will leave, people will leave and you are back to square 1.
By elderman, June 7, 2016 @ 4:03 PM
Worthingtonman;
Wow, where to start? Let’s first look at your opening statement; “Owning property is not a right, it is a privilege.” I would be curious to know what caused you to come to that conclusion? Your statement is not backed up by anything in the US Constitution or any of the amendments. Conversely, there are articles written by constitutional scholars who point out the numerous places that indirectly support the concept of private property both in the US Constitution and in the Amendments.
Next, part of your assignment was to enumerate for the readers the ways in your opinion that the present tax code was better/fairer than the code proposed in HB/SB76. I even gave you a clue that just because we have been using property tax for years did not qualify it as being superior and would be rejected out of hand. In your second sentence you state “Everybody purchasing land and building homes or businesses knew going into it that they would be paying property taxes. Are our taxes higher due to sins of others? Yes they are. And we can all thank a former school director from Gord City for that. But everybody knows the end result of buying property homes is going to equate into taxes.” REJECTED OUT OF HAND!!!!
Next, you say that “there are too many ways for the wealthy and unhealthy alike to avoid paying the new taxes.” Not sure why you are so jealous of “wealthy” individuals or even what your definition of them would be, but “wealthy” individuals by the nature of having more discretionary income would tend to spend more than lower income individuals thus generating more tax receipts and they also would be more apt/able to invest money in enterprises that by the nature of business spending would again generate tax revenue. Not sure what you problem is with unhealthy people unless you begrudge their prescription medicines not being taxed under HB/SB 76.
And you give advice to older people to insure that their homes will be passed on to their heirs. You wrote; “Listen folks. When we we get older we are stupid not to put our houses in our kids name. If not the state will take it from you when you end up in a home. Let your kid pay the taxes. If they don’t want it and you poorly planned for your future then downsize.” But you immediately follow your advice on how to pass on wealth from generation to generation by criticizing farm owners by writing “Don’t get me started on farms. Most of these are hand me downs from generation to generation and receive more government welfare then a city government housing plan.” So the steps to save generational wealth apply to you and your “group” but certainly not to people who own farms?????? And how do you differentiate the so called government welfare that you criticize going to farm owners from the government welfare that would be given to an older person who transfers their home to their children so that the state must payer their expenses in a nursing home?
And finally you say “In a nutshell, property taxes will be paid… Nearly impossible to avoid. Sales taxes can be avoided and would be greatly abused by the rich and those too greedy to pay their property taxes.” I agree that property taxes cannot be avoided and must be paid-or there will be another sheriff’s sale in Armstrong County. But unlike you, I do not see that as a plus for the taxpayers. Let’s discuss the case of someone who gets laid off from their job or worse, looses their job and does not have the funds to pay their property taxes (Not uncommon for Armstrong County). Under the current tax code, if they don’t pay their taxes the property is sold at Sheriffs sale. Under the proposed code, the individual could cut back on their taxed purchases and in doing so could delay paying the sales tax until a time that they have recovered financially. They would not lose their home and would presumably pay almost the same tax in the long run because of pent up expenses that they had been avoiding in the time of financial hardship.
Adam Grafton
By bob, June 8, 2016 @ 7:02 AM
@ Jerri,
I find it hard to believe Pyle is in bed with the PSEA. The political arm of the PSEA pushed hard to remove Corbett and any other state politicians from office they felt didn’t fit in with their agenda. Pyle falls into the same category as Corbett, so it is unlikely the PSEA is supportive of him.
@ worthingtonman,
I tend to agree with yor posts the majority of the time, but a few things in your most recent post I do not agree. If I owned a dumpster at my business, why would I not use it for my house garbage if already paying for the dumpter? Although it is in poor taste to have an employee transport the garbage and not do it himself, the owner is signing the paycheck. I also disagree that this is greed because you really have no clue what the owner does with the cash he saved by being thrifty. My boss cuts his costs anywhere he can, but he also handed me cash to pass to a friend who had recently lost everything to a fire. My boss told me to give it to this person he didn’t even know and told me not to say anything to anyone. No tax write off, wanted it done anonymously and I think this is done by him frequently. So, it it is unfair to judge this car lot owner when there are details to his spending that you are unaware of.
By jorn jensen, June 8, 2016 @ 8:20 AM
Straightforward, worthingtonman is a RINO. Rat_Smeller is correct - worthingtonman is simply a shill for this school board. As I stated, I did not read worthingtonman’s ‘piece’ because I knew what it would be - but, I ended up reading it, in parts, in the responses of others to worthingtonman’s post. People like worthingtonman vote - THAT is scary.
Scott_Starr - You are an intelligent person - think about your post a little. Currently, 3,2 million property owners and 12.7 million ‘residents’ - share the school tax load over a larger group and the increase, per capita, will be very low. Okay, so babies don’t buy diapers - their parents do. Business tax in PA is 9.9% - why come here? Property tax, eliminated, can bring business and industry here, even WITH 9.9% business tax. That would be building buildings and factories. That would be people going to work and earning money to pay income taxes. People would be fixing up their properties and spending money on materials (sales taxes) and labor (income taxes).
Scott_Starr - Look at Armstrong County and our past, and new, young, commissioners - their ‘deal’ with Pictometry. The purpose? To catch property tax cheats who hide improvements to their properties to avoid greater property taxes. Flavor it any way you want, that is the purpose of Pictometry. And what about Pictometry? A snake oil outfit that invents a scheme, using the internet, to feed off an antiquated tax from old England. The sales meals must have been wonderful. With property tax elimination, there would be no Pictometry, no assessors, no assessors’ county vehicles, no assessors’ pays and pension and health care. Tax collectors would have to go looking for work. Intelligent people can ‘see’ this.
But, thank you, Scott_Starr, for putting thought and effort into your response to the subject matter of the letter to the editor. I respect your opinions and do read them. Come join us on the PTCC - Pennsylvania Taxpayers Cyber Coalition.
By jorn jensen, June 9, 2016 @ 7:31 AM
bob - How do you find it hard to believe that Pyle is in bed with the PSEA? Pyle was a teacher - he was in the union. He has ‘ties’. Connecting Pyle with Corbett is meaningless.
Jeff Pyle ran on Jeff Coleman’s coattails on property tax elimination, and won the election handily - 12 years ago. In that time, Jeff hasn’t written any property tax elimination bills and has voted down every one presented by others. Fact.
The democrats ran Jo Ellen Bowman against Pyle and he handed her a 2 to 1 loss. And the democrats went away. Haven’t been back since. If they were ‘on the ball’, they’d run a blue dog democrat against Pyle and take the seat because so many republicans have had it with Pyle.
Thing is, the democrats already have a good democrat in Pyle - why mess with that success?
By bob, June 10, 2016 @ 1:02 AM
@ Jorn,
Feel free to state my comment as meaningless. I recall a small group of teachers circulating a petition for Jo Ellen at a local elementary school. I realize this isn’t the PSEA, but there is a good chance that some of this group paid dues to the PSEA. If Pyle voted for Corbett’s budgets and the PSEA deems Corbett as anti-education then I repeat, I find it hard to believe he is tight with the PSEA.
By jorn jensen, June 10, 2016 @ 8:55 AM
bob - I respect your opinion. Someone ‘owns’ Pyle, otherwise, he’d do what he said he’d do 12 years ago. I now have Castle Doctrine stickers on my windows and an American flag on my driver’s license and am paying about double the property taxes of 12 years ago.
You don’t believe that Pyle is tight with the PSEA, I do believe that Pyle is tight with the PSEA.
I apologize for using the word ‘meaningless’. You seem to be tuned in to the details - so many ignore the details.