School Directors Pledge to Keep Any Tax Increase Minimal
ASD Business Director Sam Kirk (KP File Photo)
by Jonathan Weaver
Budget meetings during the next five months will determine if Armstrong School District needs a tax increase for the fourth year in a row.
But last week, school directors unanimously approved a resolution indicating that they will not raise taxes by more than the state-calculated Act 1 inflationary index.
According to Business Affairs Director Sam Kirk, locally, that index is 2.7 percent (about 1.58 mills to Armstrong County residents and 3.99 mills to Indiana County residents).
“It would generate just shy of $860,000 if taxes were raised to the index,” Kirk said. “During the next couple months, we’re doing budget presentations to determine if we have to raise taxes (at all) or up to (the inflationary index) – we just know right now that’s the maximum they can raise it.”
Solicitor Lee Price said the school district did not meet requirements for any exceptions like they had in years past.
Former Business Director John Zenone was able to apply for special exceptions in both special education and retirement pension in 2013 and 2014 to go above the inflationary index – which helped the bottom line.
In 2013, the inflationary index limited school directors to collecting an additional $576,000 in taxes.
On September 1, the Pennsylvania Department of Education publishes the “base index,” a figure based on statewide wages and inflation, for the following fiscal year before it was adjusted based on county population.
Under Act 1, voters also have to approve a school district’s referendum to levy any new type of tax.
The Public School Code allows school boards to increase spending after a budget is passed “to meet emergencies, such as epidemics, floods, fires, or other catastrophes, or to provide for the payment for rental under leases or contracts to lease from the State Public School Building Authority or any municipal authority entered into subsequent to the date of the adoption of the budget.”
By adopting the resolution, board directors would have until May 31 to adopt a proposed final budget – a regular timeframe.
State calculations indicate a similar percentage within Apollo-Ridge, Freeport and Leechburg school districts. The base index is calculated by averaging the percent increases in the Pennsylvania statewide average weekly wage and the Federal employment cost index for elementary/secondary schools.
In other business matters, school directors approved four change orders due to building construction. Those change orders including payments of nearly $12,100 to General Contractor Hudson Group, Inc. and nearly #13,000 to Vern’s Electric.
According to L.R. Kimball Engineer Brian Hayes, two change orders – one for each contractor - are insurance claims due to vandalism at the new Armstrong Junior-Senior High School site along Buffington Drive.
The additional change orders included more support for a structural steel overhang and two new 175-amp breakers.
School directors did authorize payment of more than $2 million in capital projects for the new school during the month of December to six contractors.
Faculty computers will also be upgraded with solid state hard drives
Director of Technology and Information Services Anthony Grenda said the tested drives have already sizably reduced computer boot-up time and will increase performance.
Armstrong School District | jweaver January 20, 2015
By taxpoor, January 20, 2015 @ 8:32 AM
Although it is good that their going to try to keep tax increases minimal it sounds like we will once again be getting a tax increase.
I don’t blame it all on the school board but they and most of the population just will never learn to live with in their means.
We live in a I WANT THIS society and it is all to easy to go to the well and dip out more credit. Except for us property owning tax payers that cant go to the well. And I am working . What about our seniors on a fixed income who have no income coming in ? We have less students in this district than ever before but we are spending millions and just like the federal government no one is looking down the road to see how the bills will get paid.
We have the most expensive school taxes in the state. Every young person buying a house looks east and west to live just because of our School taxes.
You all got your super school now do the right thing and shut down WS and fill this one up. Yes there is room. No I don’t care about long bus rides. No I don’t care that 50 teacher’s loosing their jobs. No I don’t care about sports teams , long lunch lines and after school activity’s.
I care about having to sale the home I spent my whole adult life working for and the hundreds of seniors who have done the same because we cant pay our taxes.
One last thing. Us rural property owners along with some of the newer housing developments pay the bulk of the taxes. A lot of us no longer have children in the system. You want us to quit complaining about the taxes. Change the way you charge. Don’t penalize us for owning property and a nice house. charge everyone the same flat rate. I will gladly pay the same as the people in towns or they can pay the $5000.00 I pay and i’ll shut up.
But just like the Federal taxes A few will pay big while other’s pay little or nothing at all.
By goober, January 20, 2015 @ 3:34 PM
does anyone out in fantasy land really think taxes were not going up again? they are still working on getting the million dollars sports complex we are going to pay for. if im not mistaken i think the teacher contracts are up soon also so where do people think all this money is coming from?
By sickofpayingforit, January 20, 2015 @ 10:53 PM
Time will tell the story but typically speaking, in the private sector, when a business entity consolidates facilities, that is done to SAVE MONEY. They typically don’t consolidate to spend more money, or raise their price point for their product. It is typically consolidated to manage their pricing, so they don’t lose customers and so they can remain competitive in their market space. And of course, to ultimately maintain a healthy bottom line.
Why don’t we throw some our of economics teacher’s a few bucks to go to these board meetings and spell out some business 101? If I taught economics, on the FIRST day of school, I would tell the kids to COMPLETELY IGNORE how the school district handles it’s financial matters. That is a recipe for bankruptcy……..
By jorn jensen, January 21, 2015 @ 7:55 AM
This school district is exactly the reason why people should strongly support HB76 and SB76. Enacting this legislation would transfer the public school funding from property taxes (tax assessors and tax collectors) to sales and income taxes (decimal multipliers in a computer). This is exactly what Jeff Pyle ran his election on - property tax elimination - so, ask him where he’s at on this after what? 12 years of living the dream in Harrisburg? And, Jeff Coleman ran on the same platform before Jeff Pyle. Further, let’s hear something from from Don White on the topic. Anything from Don White on any topic.
By localtaxpayer, January 21, 2015 @ 9:16 AM
Can we please stop all the CRYING about the new Armstrong Central? The board and administration are doing their best. The move is the best for the long term for the district. The football field choice, it was ok for Kittanning students to play on for years so what is the difference now? It is a much better field to watch the game instead of Ford City’s field which is to far away.
By jorn jensen, January 21, 2015 @ 10:06 PM
The title of this article is the best part of the article - “School Directors Pledge to Keep Any Tax Increase Minimal”. That’s a ‘feel-good’ title. Now, I feel good and am happily looking forward to a tax increase instead of a tax cut due to savings from consolidation.
By sickofpayingforit, January 21, 2015 @ 11:56 PM
Here is some comedy:
They knew all about the band uniforms, mascot, etc. regarding extra-curriculars but NOBODY had a clue that the flooring (and it is a LOT of flooring) was obsolete and would require monumental maintenance to even look presentable. Allegedly it was well known in those building type circles, as other schools have went away from that type of flooring. Yet we had it all slated to be slapped down without a clue as to it’s deficiencies. Yeah, I think we worry too much about sports and stuff and should really be focusing on where every penny is going on this Taj Majal North.
I never took the SAT’s, nor have I ever taken a single college credit, so could someone tell me how many SAT points the kids will get for being student-athletes or from participating in extra-curriculars? Hopefully we get some form of educational return on those massive investments.
By mad-2010, January 22, 2015 @ 7:56 AM
About the football field choice: “it was ok for Kittanning students to play on for years.” Well that’s because Kittanning students didn’t have a choice. Some may think it’s a better field to watch a football game, but it’s not a better field for safely playing a game, and 3 miles is not too far away. I agree with Bob on this issue..
By blutoblutarsky, January 22, 2015 @ 9:58 AM
Pyle hung his community out to dry after he got their votes. The only tax relief he’ll fight for will be the guys with fat wallets in the energy industry.
By Rat_Smeller, January 22, 2015 @ 11:04 AM
@localtaxpayer - What’s more important here A. Your view, or B. Football player safety?
I said it before in another thread and I’ll say it here - Prior to consolidation, there was no choice on where to play Kittanning’s football games. Post consolidation a choice exists. Ford City or Kittanning. Dangerous fence or no dangerous fence. Its that simple. The next player injury due to that fence can be prevented right now.
By Mrcommonsense, January 22, 2015 @ 6:36 PM
I agree with you sometimes, Jorn, and other times I disagree with you. This one you have nailed it pretty good.
The representation we have in this area is absolutely Awful, spelled with a capital “A”.
Pyle is one of the greatest examples of everything wrong in Harrisburg and everything wrong with people in this area. He attempts to pass himself off as some type of “maverick.” What he has done? He talks a good game. I am as pro-2nd Amendment as you can get, but I want my representative to act on other issues. He can go to as many gun raffles, firehall dinners, etc. and talk that Jeff Pyle-speak, but he will never get my vote. I have voted GOP on an entire ballot and wrote in name when it came to his position on the ballot. Rep. Pyle has done not done anything for this area, but live out his fantasy of being a bigger fish in a little pond.
This also is reflection of our local voters. As long as you can talk a good game, and you people “what they want to hear” for that audience, you are as good as gold. Pyle was one of the major figures behind the increased gas tax. He loves talking about his faith and loyalty to country. He is not a veteran, and he had every opportunity to be one. He likes talking about war and his vast array of weaponry, so why did he not choose a military career? Walk the walk and admit that you put your career over military service. His family members and himself worked in public union jobs. He does not bring that up too much. He does not speak out about the pensions, because that could impact him or somebody close to him. I really would not have a problem with it but do not come out and speak one way while living your life another way.
What has Pyle been involved in when it comes to economic growth? Yes, we all know he has been behind the push to save coal which is a good thing, but what else is he involved with?
Like Jorn said, he ran on property tax reform and now it is subject he wants no part of, or you get some bogus answer about how out east they are not for it. Stand up! Be a leader! You want to be a true maverick, Mr. Pyle, then be one…..quit talking the talk. There are many like me who are beginning to see straight through this guy living the “good life.”
People in this need to wake up and attention to these people we elected.
By jorn jensen, January 23, 2015 @ 9:19 AM
Wow Mrcommonsense - well-detailed. People who pay attention to facts and actual historical happenings know the truth - they can see through the fluff. But, what choices do we have? The last person to run against Jeff Pyle is a pure liberal socialist - electing her would have only driven up the cost of government with more social programs and taxation and put the taxpayers closer to the poorhouse. Maybe Jeff is ‘marching time’ to save the taxpayers some time before arriving at the poorhouse.
My comment, above, which applies to the topic of this article, was in jest. No, I’m not really looking forward to any type of tax increase, not even one that is sugar-coated by the title of the article.
Mrcommonsense, I think you have it figured out. When I saw Jeff ride in to broke Ford City, in a Bimmer, on the taxpayers’ payroll, I thought, “There’s the real Jeff”. Humble yourself a little and come in to town in a Taurus or an Impala.
By WaveThatFlag, January 23, 2015 @ 12:52 PM
Typical. Just typical. Only public officials could pull off this kind of incompetence. Someone earlier hit this one out of the park - consolidation is designed to SAVE money. Instead, we will see, yet again, an INCREASE in our property taxes.
Don’t worry - and mark my words - we will continue to see INCREASES in property taxes until they get their new athletic fields. That is as sure a bet as you will you will ever make.
I should have bought in Butler.
By blutoblutarsky, January 23, 2015 @ 3:07 PM
Mrcommonsense… you are correct on Pyle.
By jorn jensen, January 25, 2015 @ 10:36 PM
WaveThatFlag, a friend had retired from employment in Armstrong County - name and job to remain confidential - he priced a new, modest brick home on same-sized lots in both Armstrong and Butler Counties. House price about same - within a few thousand. Property taxes? $4,000 in Butler County and $8,000 in Armstrong County. He and his wife now live in Butler County and his retirement income comes from Armstrong County. Truth. And, no, I’ll not divulge name and job.
By wonderwhy, January 27, 2015 @ 9:52 AM
The citizens of the Armstrong County School District CANNOT afford to have their school taxes raised even minimally! Instead of raising taxes make cuts! This district DOES NOT need so many administrators. Other larger School Districts do not have as many Administrators sitting in their Administration Building. Why do we need a supervisory positin of the new school that Mr. dominos will hold. Cut that out and save us money. Do we need a person to advertise and inform the district. Do we need glossy newsletters sent out to people who don’t even have children attending school any longer? The senior citizens and middle class can not afford to keep living here. People with good jobs are moving to Sarver, Freeport, even Leechburg, Butler, etc. because our taxes are too high. If you want to use our tax dollars to pay for all these Administrators they should be made to live within the Armstrong County School District. Oh, that’s right, the taxes are too high! Start making cuts to positions that are not needed. If they were doin such a good job why are the scores so low. Oh right! Fifty three percent of the students live in low income, single parent homes. So who is paying the bill for them? The senior citizens and middle class! You make cuts in your household budget! You don’t tax your kids. Start being more responsible with the tax payers money! It is easy to spend someone else’s money!
By blutoblutarsky, January 27, 2015 @ 11:33 AM
jorn- I have to question your data on the 2x tax comparison between Butler and AC. Yes, Butler is taxed less but I’d say it’s in the 1.25x- 1.5x range. If you’re building or buying a newer house in Butler you’re going to be paying a pretty significant rate.
By sickofpayingforit, January 27, 2015 @ 2:57 PM
Wonderwhy-
Agree 100%. Only in government, tax-fed-positions, can a manager produce a failing product line and remain a manager…….
Some of those guys make three or four times the average FAMILY in this county and keep their jobs with no expectations of results. It is a sham, to say the least.
Make the business of running a school district a for profit endeavor and sit back and watch the show. It wouldn’t resemble ANYTHING close to what we have now, I would bet my house on that!
By India, January 29, 2015 @ 8:29 AM
I only have one simple question….and it may have been answered and I just do not realize it. If the previous board borrowed 80 million dollars and we keep seeing that this board has ONLY spent 55 million on this new building….where exactly is the other 25 million? I honestly have been staying away from this subject for my own sanity. But, I could not agree with Mrcommonsense more. I have been saying this for years….people need to wake up and realize what tricks are being performed right in front of them . This County has become a laughing stock ….but as long as you are one of those big fish in the small pond , you obviously don’t mind. The decent hardworking people in this county , both young and old, are paying the price for those that are only interested in making more for themselves. This board does not care about the value of education or they would not fill this shiny new school with the same educators that make us look like fools compared to other areas. No, they are only interested in the shiny new quad ” who really cares” school . It is typical…as long as it looks good…who really cares how it functions. Or who is actually going to pay for it. Mr. Pyle and this new school seem to have a lot in common…big surprise.
By jorn jensen, January 29, 2015 @ 6:58 PM
wonderwhy - The bottom part of your comment defines socialism very well. If we can’t all be rich, let’s be equally poor.
bluto - that person retired about 11 years ago, didn’t move out of Armstrong County right away - maybe moved 3 or 4 years ago. I didn’t ask to see the data - this is an honest person and I do not believe that he ‘made up’ the numbers. Question it all you want.
By wonderwhy, January 29, 2015 @ 9:15 PM
Once again, look at the number of Administrators making over $100,000 in the Admin Building. Much larger School Districts such as Butler do not have the number of Administrators thatASD does. Make some cuts. We can’t keep getting taxed when are tax money is being wasted in the Admin Building. Who holds them accountable?
By blutoblutarsky, January 30, 2015 @ 8:07 AM
jorn- It’s very likely he overexaggerated those numbers and you’ve added to this exaggeration.
wonderwhy- Did you notice how Pyle has been very quiet on his communities expenditures on the new school, yet there was a report in the other Kittanning newspaper regarding Mr. Pyle putting his thumbprint all over the Snyder’s bid on the mineral rights at the PPG property? This perfectly shows where his allegiances lay.
I wonder why the KP didn’t report on this new story???
By Flamingo1, January 30, 2015 @ 10:01 AM
@ wonder
I was looking at salaries of ASD versus Butler or Freeport. I see 6 administrators over 100k. But in Butler more than 25. Since you are an expert on education please tell us who to cut and where to cut.
As an aside, we should be paying a bonus to any administrator who was in the district when Solak and Stiitt were in office for just having to put up with their nonsense and backward thinking.
By sickofpayingforit, January 30, 2015 @ 10:06 AM
Wonderwhy-
Obviously nobody holds them accountable, right? Our test scores are reportedly atrocious, and I didn’t hear of any changes to staffing. Our budget scenario is dismal, at-best, and I haven’t heard of anybody being replaced. Basically, there is NO expectation of quality result, and the tax payer, AND STUDENTS, are the ones suffering.
We all know in the private sector that the minute those test scores came out, there would be a major panic, speculation of not if, but WHO was packing up their desk, etc. Sadly, the real world simply does not apply when salaries are paid for by tax dollars.
100k a year with no expectations, where can I sign up!!!!
By Elderton Parent, January 30, 2015 @ 2:07 PM
Wonderwhy, You are preaching to the choir here.
Snyder U is here and staying along with the overpaid and overstaffed Administration. And coming soon will be the mega sports complex compliments of the hard working taxpayers of Armstrong County. As far as accountability, there is none! They do what they want when they want - with our money. They have worthless White and Pyle working Harrisburg for them. PA Dept of Ed doesn’t give a rats a$$ about it.
Who is going to stop them? NO ONE!
By offthegrid, January 30, 2015 @ 2:51 PM
Maybe the question that needs to be asked is how many of the board members have spouses, relatives or friends that work for the school district? Very good reason to keep so many personnel employed by this district. We’ll see how fast the next contract gets approved also. I’m bringing this up because a majority of the board members have a personal association with many employees of the district.
By jorn jensen, February 1, 2015 @ 1:44 PM
wonderwhy - You’re making too much sense. Our school board doesn’t have the guts to make the cuts. They’ll find a home for everyone and increase the spending to new heights. It is the job of the school board, elected by the taxpayers, to hold administration accountable. There is your problem.
By jorn jensen, February 2, 2015 @ 7:28 AM
Interesting reading. Read Flamingo’s January 30 comment and then read those that follow. Interesting reading. Appears to show one person way out in left field.
Correct, offthegrid. Did you hear where the State of Arkansas Department of Education stepped in and took over a school district because teachers were not wearing underwear? Maybe it is time for the PA Department of Education to step in and take over ASD.
By sickofpayingforit, February 2, 2015 @ 2:10 PM
Jorn-
I’ve said it many times, the problem isn’t this current school board, nor any school board of the past. The problem is the business model of electing a group of volunteers to be the school board. There is the major problem!
Who volunteers for that thankless job?
A for profit school district would be run better than ANY government-style school district, guaranteed. Capitalism works if the government doesn’t get in the way………
By jorn jensen, February 2, 2015 @ 10:40 PM
sickofpayingforit - I agree and disagree with you.
I volunteered for the thankless job in the Leechburg area school district, years ago. I was ‘drafted’ by the union democrats in the mill - at least they cared - the republicans never approached me. We had 3 schools and were running out of money. My kids walked 500 feet to one of those schools. As a board, we closed 2 schools and got rid of the buildings and consolidated everyone into the one school in town. People were mad at me and the other directors. I stuck to my guns and stated that we’ll consolidate, better fill classrooms, add a wider course offering and not further hurt the taxpayers - and we did. My kids got on the bus. We, collectively, as a school board, did the right thing for education and the taxpayers. Even back then, we were looking at closing the district and joining up with another district. The district is on life support, today, and graduating a 35 student graduating class. That’s tutor-level education. They need to suck it up and close it.
So, I disagree with you - you can put together an intelligent, proper-acting, responsible school board and they can be volunteers.
offthegrid has it right - look at the interconnectivity of this ASD school board and other people in the district. We had none of that at Leechburg. We were even shown a letter by the union leadership to the the district teachers telling them to run for school boards where they lived, not where they taught, in order to indirectly take over their own watch upon themselves - that was back in the 80′s.
So, sickofpayingforit, the problem IS this school board, and the ones before it. Even the 1992 consolidation was ‘late’ compared to other districts up and down this river valley. And even it didn’t stick due to some misguided school directors. The history is solid - it is undeniable.
But, I heartily agree with you that a for-profit school system would work much, much better. People with resumes would be interviewed for operations and they’d have to perform and meet expectations. It is a dying breed that thinks capitalism is what will work, yet it was just that, that built this great country. And now, it is out of vogue. We all lose thanks to government that thinks it can spend its way to riches (with our tax dollars).
By jorn jensen, February 2, 2015 @ 10:48 PM
sickofpayingforit - This is why I’m so critical of this district, this school board and prior school boards. I’ve been there, done that back in the 70′s/80′s and we did the responsible things for education AND the taxpayers. It isn’t as difficult as people make it out to be. It really isn’t.
By blutoblutarsky, February 3, 2015 @ 1:20 PM
sickof,
If the ASD was turned into a “for profit” school system, education will probably be put last on the minds of the people running it.
First they would have to consider how many billboards to place on school grounds, which companies would pay the most to advertise to these kids, and who would get the contracts to supply food or other items the school needs.
Considering how many private sports teams get public funding for arenas, who’s to say the taxpayers of AC wouldn’t be paying for a new “corporate” school anyway? Let’s not even mention what happens if the company goes bankrupt…
By blutoblutarsky, February 3, 2015 @ 1:26 PM
I’m also still VERY curious why the KP didn’t think the bid on the PPG property mineral rights wasn’t newsworthy! That’s big news for this area.
By sickofpayingforit, February 3, 2015 @ 2:11 PM
Bluto-
The test scores would be the product they are expected to manage, and produce. Just like the soda that goes into the cans and the tires that go on the cars. If the product is not working, we replace the management, quick. We could also make the compensation contingent on a ration of taxation and test scores. Many companies offer incentives for performance. What incentive does anyone in the district have now other then nepotistic opportunities?
By jorn jensen, February 3, 2015 @ 2:25 PM
bluto, typical bluto - you have all of the answers. How about citing your experience? That should be interesting.
Contrary to what you believe, a for-profit system would work well. And that is what I believe, coming from a for-profit world that works.
In the ASD, currently, where is the education of the students in priorities ranking? And, if you believe that it is #1 priority ranking, then why do the results not support that?
By Flamingo1, February 3, 2015 @ 11:14 PM
Jorn
The role of the board—-by law—-is to set policy and to direct the school district. It hires administrators to implement policy and hires teachers to instruct under the supervision of the administration. It is not to keep track of the administration.
A for profit school district—interesting. If I were a teacher I would only want students who came from 2 parent families, with incomes over $75 thousand per year. Special education would be too expensive to implement and so that would not be a part of the system. Sports seldom make money, so that would be cut out completely. Buildings are expensive so just using those trailers would be much cheaper. Janitors cost too much, so make the kids sweep and clean the place.
And school buses. This is transportation. Make the kids and their parents pay for the cost. You knew when you had kids where the schools are, Either live closer, or pay up. You have about five years from when they are born to when they enter school.
You have to realize that education is either a businessl; Or education is something that has a social benefit. If it has a social benefit then the whole community pays for it as there is a long term benefit to having an educated populace that is more concerned with outcomes before cost (not that cost is not important).
In some places there are charter schools. Less than 20 percent of the students do better than regular school district students. And the cost is 30 percent more.
So show me the for profit district that does better.
In post secondary education there are for profit schools like III and University of Phoenix. Mostly students don’t graduate and come out with gigantic debt. Go figure.
By MaryPoppins, February 4, 2015 @ 2:36 PM
If you want a good example of a for-profit school system in Pennsylvania, you should look no further than our very own Charter Schools. A recent report from Center for Popular Democracy, “Integrity in Education, and Action United” found that Pennsylvania has lost 30 million dollars from fraud associated with Charter Schools.
Some fine examples of your tax dollars at work “include an administrator who diverted $2.6 million in school funds to a church property he also operated. Another charter school chief was caught spending millions in school funds to bail out other nonprofits associated with the school. A pair of charter school operators stole more than $900,000 from the school by using fraudulent invoices, and a cyber school entrepreneur diverted $8 million of school funds for houses, a Florida condominium, and an airplane.”
Nice!
A report, released by Rep. James Roebuck, chairman of the Pennsylvania House Education Committee found the “average SPP [School Performance Profile] score for traditional public schools was 77.1, but for charter schools it was 66.4, and cyber-charter schools came in at a low 46.8″
Oh yes!, let’s hand over the reins to some for profit entity that will only interested in padding their coffers while providing the lowest cost education possible. Believe it or not, not everything is best solved through capitalism.
By blutoblutarsky, February 4, 2015 @ 5:02 PM
sickof- The “grade as the product” system you are referencing is not a “for profit” school system at all. You simply are asking that teachers pay be contingent upon students grades. That’s completely different!
For profit means that someone or some entity somewhere will make money from it. In an odd way, you’re asking for a non-profit business lol
jorn- Sometimes common sense beats experience. Are we all about to get a little speech on your “credentials”? Yikes.
The one thing that I will agree on is that education is not the #1 priority in the ASD. It may have never been to date.
MaryPoppins- You should realize by now that Jorn has only one interest- pushing partisan policies regardless of how idiotic they may be.
By Iteach, February 4, 2015 @ 6:53 PM
To those who think capitolism works(Jorn): please realize that true capitalism requires a laissez faire government which allows success to prosper and failure to fail. We haven’t seen that in a long time. I agree with Flamingo. Student success is correlated to their home life. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. It is true.
By mad-2010, February 4, 2015 @ 7:48 PM
Well said Poppins, Well said….
By jorn jensen, February 4, 2015 @ 8:40 PM
Interesting, Mary Poppins. So, The Center for Popular Democracy is not a biased source, right? Please. The cases of fraud, that you mention, should be handled by the legal system, and handled harshly, if they are fact. No leniency, no plea bargaining - none of that kind of crap. Hit ‘em hard.
Flamingo - At Leechburg, we, the school board, managed and held administration accountable. Were we working outside of our limits? Isn’t directing the school district the same as managing/approving administration actions and holding administration accountable?
By blutoblutarsky, February 5, 2015 @ 11:49 AM
jorn- that’s hilarious that you call someone’s source biased when you gather ALL of your information from conservative sources and facebook posts (and of course retired gentleman who are “honest”) lol
By jorn jensen, February 6, 2015 @ 8:35 AM
Iteach, I also agree that student success is correlated to their home life. I like it and it is true. I have never stated differently. It is not the teachers’ job to raise the kids, it is their job to educate them and it is the kids’ job to learn. In today’s society, you couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher with what many parents present as a ‘student’ to a school district.
So, how does that relate to capitalism and a school district run as a ‘for profit’ school district?
By MaryPoppins, February 6, 2015 @ 12:57 PM
Facts are facts , it doesn’t matter if the entity reporting them is biased or not, it doesn’t change facts. These are verifiable facts not take from some facebook post, people were arrested, some went to jail, some settled etc. etc. Still don’t believe it? then by all means go do some research and prove me wrong. Please! As usual Jorn, you’re attempting to disregard facts because it doesn’t fit in your previously conceived world view.
By mad-2010, February 7, 2015 @ 12:17 PM
JJ.. I’m not sure here, but, maybe the NO Child Left Behind Law has something to do with Iteach’s comment…
By Elderton Parent, February 7, 2015 @ 1:45 PM
I agree that student success is correlated to their home life. It is unfortunate that in today’s society we have parents that just do not care enough to raise their children with morals and values. But, students are children and they still need discipline in school just as if they were anywhere else with an adult.
Discipline has always been a part of education. It’s nothing new and it isn’t going to change. Especially with the lack of parenting these days. IMO, parents should have to participate in the discipline process. Make parents be accountable for the behaviors of their school aged children.
I do get a little frustrated with teachers that do nothing but gripe and complain about their career. A career path they chose. In today’s world, anyone should be very appreciative that they even have a job. Appreciate it and perform to the highest level. Teachers that are just riding the wave to retirement or just do not care anymore are only hurting our children. We can thank the union for allowing this behavior to continue. Sad, very sad.
By mad-2010, February 8, 2015 @ 6:45 AM
Poppins.. Ask Old JJ this: In the school system we have now, how much fraud do we have?? LOL
By sickofpayingforit, February 8, 2015 @ 1:46 PM
Bluto-
I am saying a for profit school district would have the following things in place.
A managing body that’s goal is a solid product that creates profit for their business. The product is test scores and the profit is based on those test scores and the levels of taxation required to get them. With this in place, the managing body would HAVE to look past nepotistic opportunities and demand results to generate revenue for themselves. They would not be caught with bad flooring, roofs that are too short, etc. They would know that the expenditures directly affect them, and act accordingly. I just read where excuses were made, and NOT challenged. Unacceptable to me as an owner of this district! I am not suggesting the teachers have anything to do with this. I am suggesting MANAGEMENT, the board and admin, do, as their bottom line/pay will be dependant upon results. Basically how EVERY private sector manager gets his pay. He produces and continues to get paid. He goes way above and beyond and gets bonuses. He falters and is QUICKLY replaced. That is what I am saying. The current system is pay for no expectations, with little to no chance of losing their jobs. How in the world is the tax payer, who by-the-way actually OWN this district, supposed to get a fair shake in this?
By blutoblutarsky, February 9, 2015 @ 1:41 PM
sickof-
I completely understand the requirements of your idea and I did not state if it was right or wrong. The only thing I’m saying is that you can’t call it a “for profit” school. It’s not the same thing, plain and simple.
I’m not sure if the system is the problem in AC. Plenty of other districts use the same set up with great results for the students and taxpayers. Why can’t our area? The main reason is that we’re still paying for mistakes made by former school boards and will be for some time.
In the scenario you mentioned above… what happens if the test scores raise significantly? Do the teachers get a raise? Not knowing your year to year tax payment would not be a fair shake to taxpayers either.
You are also insinuating that mistakes are never made in the private sector and ineffective people are fired immediately. That’s hogwash.
By sickofpayingforit, February 10, 2015 @ 10:52 PM
Bluto- Dale Carnegie once said that if you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you have always gotten. At what point do we decide enough is enough, and this current model doesn’t work. Even if we have to dig out from past mistakes, that needs to be part of the current model and I don’t see any path forward with this current model that says we will get better. We consolidated buildings and they are raising taxes signifying they need more capital to operate. Is that NOT an oxymoron in the business world? You can argue, and would be correct, that the cost to create the new building is temporary and some private sector consolidating businesses deal with that. I just don’t think the plan or the model works anymore.
Agree that private sector does make mistakes and some people are not fired immediately. I may have sounded like that and think that ineffective managers should be shown the door quickly. Bottom line is the market left to it’s own devices (without the government helping out) will sort out those companies, fairly quickly, in a fashion that would make Charles Darwin very proud of his writings. Bad management leads to bad product lines, which leads to bad profit margins which leads to bankruptcy. How is our bottom line looking in ASD anymore?
By blutoblutarsky, February 12, 2015 @ 3:10 PM
sickof- Dale Carnegie also said-
“When dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with creatures of emotion, creatures bustling with prejudices and motivated by pride and vanity.”
I believe you are thinking emotionally versus logically. As I stated a few days ago, this system is working great in other areas. My question is, why isn’t it working in the ASD? I don’t believe it’s the system that’s faulty, it’s how the system is being operated here.
In my opinion, if the new building wasn’t built now and the three would have been renovated, we would be looking at more renovations in 20-30 years on 3 buildings opposed to 1 renovation in 30 or so years. Unfortunately we have to take one on the chin now and save in the future.
As far as the school costing $85 million… I do wonder why Freeport can build a new middle school for under 40 and we’re over 2x that.
The private sector makes many mistakes and while a company may die off after a few, the people in charge keep on winning. Numec in Apollo is a prime local example.
P.S. I like how you ignored my question regarding teachers raises if test scores are higher, but I will thank you for not pulling a Jorn and continuing to argue that your scenario was a “for profit” system.